HH bug got me ... Part One!

Ari · December 28, 2011, 11:53:00 PM

30, I watched the video and took Schulz's advice, I'm only working on the swing draw form for at least the next 2 weeks.

I'm already on day four and I can see huge improvements, I've been filming and analyzing my every move and its working great.

Nate Steen . · December 29, 2011, 01:02:00 AM

There is a secret to the swing draw contained in schulz's vidoe if you listen close....draw in rythm....in other words....a cadence that is all your own. Practice this cadence in your head as you learn your hill swing draw. The.release should be a part of the cadence too. The whole routine is one measured.cadence that you repeat to.yourself everytime you shoot an arrow. In pressure shot scenarios you can repeat the rythm/cadence as you shoot which takes your mind off the.target while keeping.your eye on the target. Let your aim be almost subconscious while you consciously think about your rythm/cadence........

Watch a baseball pitcher throw a pitch in a game...he thinks about how he's gripping the ball and the windup.(cadence)....but just barely sees the target (mitt) as he delivers the ball and somehow the ball gets there with great accuracy. We can shoot an arrow much the same way.

Wow....now we're into the heavy reading i hinted at awhile back....

Ari · December 29, 2011, 03:47:00 AM

Great advice Nate, I've been using four words as I'm going through the shot and it helps a lot.

mikebiz · December 29, 2011, 04:07:00 AM

QuoteOriginally posted by mikebiz:
Those pushing the "fluid" motion of the Hill-style are right on the mark. In the first 5 seconds you will see exactly how fluid the shot is. John starts with the bow at his side, at the ready. The disk is thrown and 1,2,3 the arrow is loosed and the disk is pulverized.

Try counting off to yourself as you practice this technique. It will not happen overnight. It can be frustrating. Remember that it doesn't have to be anywhere near as fast as Howard or John right off the bat. Count slow and concentrate. Neither one of those masters perfected this the first time out. It's all about practice and patience. You can only learn the technique by actually employing it. Read and watch everything you can and get out on there and shoot, shoot, shoot. Maybe some day you'll be "Hitting 'Em Like Howard Hill". Good luck.

Like I said when I posted the info for "Hitting 'Em" the swing draw is as easy as 1,2,3. But it takes A LOT more practice and focus to perfect it. Nate is right on the money. Cadence is critical. I think what many of us forget (I do) is that repeatability is absolutely essential if the shot is going to hit the mark every time. By counting off, hitting and MAINTAINING anchor and following through until the arrow strikes the target your accuracy will improve dramatically. Mine sure has, but I have a lot of work to do still.

I love to hear from guys like Nate who have been doing this a long time. Their advice is priceless.

mikebiz · December 29, 2011, 04:11:00 AM

Hey Ari,

Are you using four words or four letter words? :D Learning the Hill style can frustrate the hell out a shooter. But once you have the basics down it's all just practice, practice, practice.

How do you like that Miller Sage? I'm sure you love it, but it's one of David's bows you don't hear much about. How does it compare to a bamboo or yew bow? I've never shot an Osage longbow, but may want to add one to the collection. Thanks.

mikebiz

Ari · December 29, 2011, 04:45:00 AM

G'day Mike,

I do like the Sage, David is a real craftsman. As far as comparing it to a bamboo or yew bow this is my first Hill so it's hard to say, but I think it might have more string follow than his other bows and probably a little less speed if that matters.

December 29, 2011, 04:51:00 AM

QuoteOriginally posted by sunset hill:
In pressure shot scenarios you can repeat the rythm/cadence as you shoot which takes your mind off the target while keeping your eye on the target. Let your aim be almost subconscious while you consciously think about your rythm/cadence........

Wow....now we're into the heavy reading i hinted at awhile back....

This "heavy reading" is priceless.....windows and gateways to the magic!

December 29, 2011, 04:56:00 AM

Does anyone know if "Hittin em" comes in DVD? I no longer own a VCR.

joevan125 · December 29, 2011, 06:09:00 AM

Please i don't want anyone to get mad but tell me why the top shooters today shoot a completely different way. I once asked one of the top archers of our time about his style while hunting.

He shoots 3-under and he told me in hunting situations he can shoot just as fast and acquire his target in a matter of a couple of seconds.

I know he kills a lot of animals every year and to watch him shoot is unbelievable.

Rob DiStefano · December 29, 2011, 06:24:00 AM

archery, by nature, is far more subjective than objective.

there are more than a few consistent, valid, accurate ways of shooting any stick bow.

there is NO dictum that specifies the absolute need to shoot a bow with a particular type of form or aim - that would be elitist lunacy.

Benny Nganabbarru · December 29, 2011, 06:26:00 AM

Joe, some of the lads here can absolutely shoot like Hill or Schultz, copying and utilising their technique with superb talent. I can't. I tried really hard, but am wired differently, I think. But then, I'm not a great shooter, either. There are many ways to skin a cat, and it is my firm belief that just because a fellow appreciates, owns and shoots a Hill longbow, does not mean he has to shoot like Hill. My technique for shooting my Hill longbows is the same as when shooting my Black Widow recurve. I'm not the most athletic sort of person - more of a slow-and-steady plodder - and I suppose I just don't have the athletic coordination and talent to shoot with that natural-looking instinctive swing that Hill, Schultz (even Asbell) promoted. We are all physiologically different.

Rob DiStefano · December 29, 2011, 06:29:00 AM

mr. kleinig is being modest - he's a more than average stickbow archer and has the game count to sorta prove that.

again, in the matter of flinging arrows, it's all about doing whatever is most consistent for you, and no one else.

Mudd · December 29, 2011, 07:13:00 AM

QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Van Dort:
Does anyone know if "Hittin em" comes in DVD? I no longer own a VCR.

Sorry but no!.... I've already run that trail.... several times...lol(slow learner)

Back then I was desperate for a DVD copy because I had a friend over in China that needed a copy..lol

Began looking into the feasibility of getting a DVD burned from a video.

I made it through all of the hoops but the last one...lol

I did everything short of breaking the law...(the lady at the business where they do that sort of thing was willing but I had to draw the line.)

It would have required me to bother John in his retirement.

Since my friend was coming back to the states soon I thought when he comes to visit we'll watch my copy together..that'd be soo.. way!!! cool!

God bless,Mudd

joevan125 · December 29, 2011, 08:04:00 AM

Thanks guys i knew i could count on all of you.

Rik · December 29, 2011, 08:05:00 AM

Back in the day I somehow got lucky a lot and won a lot of archery shoots with both longbow and recurve, but there were two guys who could consistently beat me, every time they showed up. They both shot Howard Hill bows, and they both shot classic Hill style, just as Nate describes.

I have never practiced it, and am kinda curious as to whether I could learn to do it. I did manage to kill three deer this year without the aid of a bow quiver, so there is hope.

I've nothing to lose, as bear season is several months away and a month of practice with a different style won't hurt a thing. If nothing else, it will be fun. I think I am going to give it a try, as I do have the Hitting 'em Like Howard Hill video to watch and learn from.

Besides, since Nate no longer even mentions the relative attractiveness or unattractiveness of my bow quivers any more, it kinda takes the fun out of using them. I am pretty sure I can get him to laugh out loud when he sees my fantastic Horseshoe Bend swing-draw style!

joevan125 · December 29, 2011, 08:48:00 AM

Been shooting trad for nearly 4 years and started out with a Dwyer lonbow after reading and watching every video on HH and Fred Bear.

Of course i shot just like Howard but just never was consistance with this method and im not kidding i had the fever bad and shot over 200 arrows a day, not at one time but throughout the day. I work from home.

2 Months later i went and took lessons from a Championship winner many times over. He had me shoot 3-under and from day one i have never shot better.

joevan125 · December 29, 2011, 08:51:00 AM

Like you guys just said it's not for everyone and as hunters we want to shoot the best possible way to make a fast killing shot.

tadpole · December 29, 2011, 09:35:00 AM

I have shot traditional all of my life. My dad started me out on recurves when I was about 4 or 5 yrs old, I am now 36 and about 5 or 6 years ago I switched over to Hill bows and have not looked back. The swing draw is the way I shoot, I have not mastered it yet but I am determined to get it one of these days.

dragonheart · December 29, 2011, 10:34:00 AM

The cadence that Nate mentioned has helped me greatly! I was really struggling to shoot with any consitency a few weeks ago. One of the issues I have dealt with is tension. Mental and physical.

Tension in the drawing hand and over-aiming, or simply "trying to hard" to shoot a perfect shot. The cadence of the shot gives you a standard to return to when your shooting goes somewhat down.

I have noticed that as I swing up, I shoot much better if I slow the draw, at the 3/4 draw mark or "straight back motion" as John Schulz refers to it, as I come into my anchor. I am allowing the tension to increase in my back muslces, and the fingers on the string are only hooks. The back of the hand is relaxed.

Keeping the bow arm shoulder low and back is imperative to my arrows staying down the middle. I shoot better with a slower cadence than others, right now. I think that you can speed that up, but in learning the method, slower at first is better. that cadence or mantra that you can develop, I think is a major key to shooting well.

In hunting, it may just be that many tend to shoot faster in those "adrenaline laden" situations. The bow, to me, shooting at game always seems lighter than normal. In shooting at game we are allowing our subconsious to "go" or "green light" and our focus is much more intense.

Two videos here on trad gang gives some insight into this. Watch Paul Schaffer shoot at the dead cape buffalo practicing. Then watch the shots on the mountain goat. Pay attention to his cadence of the shot. When shooting at actual game he is quicker to shoot and adapts the cadence to the situation. The form is the same, but the cadence is altered.

Kelly · December 29, 2011, 10:39:00 AM

After nearly 50 years of shooting recurves with a definitive draw, hold, aim, release technigue that is somewhat target style(as I used to shoot spot rounds competively in the late 1960's/early 1970's) now finds me trying to learn something different-the Hill style swing draw. Man this is a constant battle-when using the cadence Nate talks about finds me releasing before anchor so have to force myself to be more deliberate as I approach anchor in order to anchor and make sure I'm on target before releasing.

Don't know if I'll ever be as fluid as seen in the Hill style swing draw at this stage in my life with 49 years of shooting a different way.

The swing type draw troubles me too from another aspect-that of all that movement before shooting at big game. Many a whitetail I've hunted would not be standing there when the arrow arrives with all that movement and neither would the last 5x5 bull elk I killed, either.

That said, with all the practice I've done over the years the shooting sequence-cadence if you prefer-for me has been very slow and dliberate but guess what? Can't remember a single animal I've shot or shot at where my deliberate practice style was used. Memory reminds me that all my shooting at game sequences were very fast. I've heard many others say that they "don't even remember drawing the bow or the next thing I knew the fletchings appeared in his side". And this includes the misses at game, too. If one practices one way-then uses something totally different on game shots I can see a huge conflict and why things can go wrong with the shot.

So maybe there is something here with the swing draw to explore for a much longer period of time.