HH bug got me ... Part One!

[dragonheart]

"Can't remember a single animal I've shot or shot at where my deliberate practice style was used. Memory reminds me that all my shooting at game sequences were very fast. I've heard many others say that they "don't even remember drawing the bow or the next thing I knew the fletchings appeared in his side".

Kelly,

I am with you, 100%.  There is an intensity, a single focus, oneness, mindfulness, being in the here and now when we shoot at game.  Making the shot under pressure with adrenaline is what keeps us coiming back.  Maybe all those hunting archers from days gone by live in our "collective unconsious" when we are making a killing shot and they help us through.  That is getting pretty deep.

[Rik]

I think the "swing" part for me is going to be about two inches i total, but what I am really wanting to try is the fluid draw and release part.

[GregD]

Mudd and Tony Hitting Em does or at least did come in DVD at one time, I have a copy in my hand. I don't remember where I bought it. Greg

[Red Tailed Hawk]

Originally posted by Rik:
I think the "swing" part for me is going to be about two inches i total, but what I am really wanting to try is the fluid draw and release part.

Agreed, I dont think I swing much more than 4". Really am looking more for that fluid motion.

[Mudd]

I agree GregD it did at one time but all copies apparently sold out and no more were being made.

God bless,Mudd

[dragonheart]

I like to have the bow with a bent arm, up and infront, with my drawing hand just below the level of my sternum at the beginning of the draw and the bowhand just below the belt line.  I used to shoot with the bow as Schulz shows in his video and Asbell shows with the bow arm "down by the side" at the beginning of the spread draw.  

I like having the bow more in the ready position than down by my side.  This has less movement (great for shooting at critters), than swinging or spreading with the bow arm down on the leg.  I also have a poor habit of straightening my bow arm too much!  This position helps to reinforce that the bow arm is bent at the beginning of the draw sequence and remains that way throughout.  

The dynamic aspect of the spread draw is too keep that balance between pushing.  The weight of the bow is felt in the grip with a "bone to bow" feeling and a broken wrist of the bow hand.  The drawing arm can be visualized as "pushing the elbow back" in contrast to pulling the bow.  This will activate the right back muscles if you focus on pushing the elbow instead of pulling.

If you watch video of Hill shooting at game he has the bow more "out from his leg & in an in-front position".  There is a video on youtube of him shooting a jaguar (devilcat).  When he gets to the position on the rocks, he gets the bow into the position I am rererring to, then swings up and comes to anchor slightly slowing to a pause at anchor.  In slow motion it is "poetry in motion" to watch.

[MikeNova]

Since I hunt from a tree stand I have watched Howard shoot that croc in tembo many times. I think my style in that regard is very close to his. I think

Since I am a ground hunter, I found that more of a spread up draw to be more effective on deer, when sitting. My swing/spread draw starts with the bow just above my belt and even with my belly. My draw hand is just under my shirt pocket with my fore arm against my belly. From that point everything simply comes up and I finish with about four inches of actual dead flat straight draw, if that is what is needed for that particular shot. Mechanically it uses about the same muscle groups as swinging up from the hip as the last 3/4 of the swing draw.  It still has mobility and speed, but with less chance of contacting brush.  I suppose that there is more strain on the bow arm elbow with a higher starting spread draw, but if that is enough to make a difference the bow is probably to stiff to begin with.

[dragonheart]

That shot on the croc is a cool video.  To me sitting on your behind is one of the hardest position to shoot from.

[Nate Steen .]

ok,  now that I have everyone thinking and discussing, it's time to get to the heart of  the lesson as taught by the masters...

first of all, everyone is different, make sure you have fun shooting the way you want to, that's the joy of it all.  Figure out what is best for you...that's critical  

I'm making these statements based on a lifetime of participating in active sports... shooting and otherwise, and there are amazing similarities between archery and other sports like throwing a ball, golf, flyfishing, etc.

Hill was a very athletic guy, baseball pitcher, golfer, etc....his 'swing draw style' was an athletic motion, copied from the old selfbow/ELB shooters that fit in with the fluid, dynamic motions of the other sports.  Due to the nature of the old self longbows, shooters did not 'hold' the bow at full draw very long or they lost cast.  Larry Hughes was a phenom archer back in the day and is pictured on one of Hill's shorts...even for a target archer he doesn't hold but a very short time....but I digress...

When I bring up the topic of cadence and how if works with the swing draw....there alot of people saying how it doesn't work for them...that's fine but read on....every person's shot cadence will be different, from slow to fast and everywhere inbetween.  The 'swing' part of the draw is nothing more than the method used to get the bow up into shooting position.  Some guys like to preset their arm/bow (i.g. Rik), some guys swing it up into position....but it has to have a cadence/rythm.  Figure out your own rythm and swing whether it's two inches of swing or two feet.  When you have this rythm/cadence set to a specific count for the entire shot including anchor and release, not just the swing, then you must practice the cadence (for the entire shot sequence) until you can repeat it in your mind every shot.  then in a pressure shot situation, you can walk your cadence through your mind, allowing your form to follow cadence all the way through anchor and release.  What happens in a pressure shot, we forget about all except the target and complete form goes out the window and we short draw and slop the release and get frustrated at our 'miss'.  Make 'your' cadence/rythm a mental count in your mind and part of the shot sequence through release, not just the swing draw.

now the reason behind the fluid swing draw...  anyone who has participated in sports like golf or throwing a ball know that the entire motion of throwing a ball, or swinging a club doesn't have a 'stop'.  The entire motion is fluid and continuous.  I played baseball as a youngster, and as a golfer sport a 8 handicap with forged blades...it's amazing how the human body can be accurate, fluidly throwing a ball into a mitt from 60 feet away, or fluidly swing a club, very accurately sending a ball on target over 100 yards away...there is no static motion.  We don't have to stop the motion to make sure everything is lined up and ready....once we start, everything is one, fluid, continuous motion......funny, that's what Schulz says in his video.  Why is it when we shoot arrows, we think we must stop and aim?  why do we think we can't be accurate with the swing draw?  Why are we overthinking this process and analyzing it to the point of turning a simple, fluid, dynamic process into a static, aiming process?  Until about 70 years ago, everyone shot more fluid.  Only with the advent of fiberglass and recurves did we have the tools to allow us to 'hold' the bow and 'aim'.  Has that been a progression in  the 'shooting' art?  or has that been the start of our downfall in the instinctive shooting art as it has been performed for thousands of years....hhhmmm.

[tg2nd]

 
Nate,
thanks a lot!
Very good insight!

[Nate Steen .]

I guess the 'swing' can be thought of as the 'jump start' to the shot, even if it's only 2 inches.....like the windup to the pitch, the forward press to the golf swing, the back-cast to the forward cast

[tadpole]

Thanks Nate, great post!  The fluid nonstop swing is what I am really trying to master. I have a problem of wanting to stop at anchor and right now I loose a little bit of accuracy if I don't stop or at least slow down.

[Nate Steen .]

Tadpole....instinctive shooting accuracy comes from repeating good form and technique.  It isn't magic.  We are all blessed with hand eye coordination.  What is confusing to the mind and a detriment to instinctive accuracy is double-guessing yourself and going back to an aiming/static process.

for example....when someone learns to drive a car, the first lessons are packed with too much information and it's difficult to remember to use your feet, hands, ears, eyes, and brain all at the same time and keep the car between the lines...  so you start slowly.  As you learn how to clutch, brake, steer, shift, etc,  you are not conentrating so much on focusing on the area between the lines, but you see them and keep the car between them by hand-eye coordination.  After a couple of months, you can drive smoothly, switching between lanes and cars at full speed in rush hour traffic, downshifting, accelerating, etc all without very much conscious thought, and you still aren't 'picking a spot' between the lines to aim your car.  How do you do it then?  our minds in conscious and subconscious forms direct our movements Extremely Well everyday if we just let it happen.  We can aim a bow the same way....but we have been told by writers and 'experts' seeking new material to talk about that you need to 'aim' with a static style to be accurate.

In my opinion,  it is much easier to shoot a longbow using the same instinctive FLUID, DYNAMIC motions that I use everyday to perform everything I need to do.  sometimes that fluid dynamic motion is a little slower, sometimes a little faster, but it is never static.  If you drive a car in the same static mindset that you shoot an arrow, you will get run over.

the key to shooting this way is to give it enough time to be proficient.  It doesn't happen overnight.  remember how many hours it took learning to drive a car.  How many hours it took with your dad and playmates learning how to throw a ball.  We add stress to our longbow shooting lives by mandating our speed of accuracy level.  Each one of us is different, learning speeds will differ.

All this helps if you shoot one bow during this process.  We get different bows and they all will shoot slightly different and that slows down our learning curve.

[john gilbert]

Nate is correct. If you get a chance to read Horace Ford in the Archery library, he is clearly using the swing draw in his shooting.

[dragonheart]

Here is a link to some shooting by Howard Hill, smooth and fluid.  Howard is not to smooth when he falls in ontop of the gator gar!  LOL  

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNHzLzfsf0U

[Ontario Longbow]

My new (to me) Hill Wild Boar arrived today. Great shooting and very, very quite:

 

 

 

[Ari]

I find the other thing stressed from this style besides a fluid shot is proper form, the straight back motion after the swing along with the motionless hands at release help to make sure the correct back tension is been used.

[Berliner]

Here`s some more eye candy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_uS-C7aRfE

Well, I got a JH bow, now it`s up to me....
 

[Ari]

It would be great to see the "Hit em" DVD back in production, it is an invaluable source of information.
We could get a coin for our bows or a t-shirt to wear, but I think the best way to pay our respect to these great shooters of old is to keep this video available and back in production, like it was made to be.