Now I am confused

bowfanatik · December 28, 2013, 04:26:00 AM

this is my arrow , for bow of 60 pounds
spine 300
insert 50 grain
field point 250 grain

and then I look at these two videos, in which the man has prove that is the same penetration with light and heavy arrows! Which means I'm without the need made this heavy setup

YouTube

Video 2

Please someone explain this to me, until I threw everything in the trash

damascusdave · December 28, 2013, 05:34:00 AM

Before I would give that video much credibility I would want to see an average of a larger number of shots...his claim that the bow is quiet seems suspect to me...and I am not sure that penetration with field points tells me anything about penetration with broad heads

DDave

Caughtandhobble · December 28, 2013, 08:24:00 AM

Speed x mass= energy.

Your setup will be more stable and much quieter

drewsbow · December 28, 2013, 08:27:00 AM

your set up sounds great why worry about others if yours shoots well for you ?

rraming · December 28, 2013, 09:24:00 AM

I know Ken, he is a huge advocate of light arrows. He uses a Pinnacle riser and trad tech ILF extreme limbs. He knows the minimum that can be shot from his setup without wrecking it. His basic point is accuracy and reducing point of aim (drop). He shoots the IBO and comes into Minneapolis to win our 3D shoot at Coon Rapids. I have shot that bow of his, it's not the setup for me but works well for him. My bows can't shoot stuff that light without destroying them. His form is very good, not much human error with his shooting, which would only help his theory out.

Cherokee Scout · December 28, 2013, 09:26:00 AM

I like seeing people test on their own to find out for themselves what is true and what is not. Too often we read posts that are stated as fact but are nothing more than repeating what someone else posted and are often opinions and theories not fact.
Testing such things and personal experience is not always perfect due to varying circumstances but it is better than another person's opinion.
The only question I have about the video test is the type of point used. Maybe I missed it but did they all have the same shape and did any have any nicks or blunt spots. That could make a big difference in the phone book test. Personally, I think it was an excellent demonstration and tells me not to worry much about arrow weight.
I don't know that it would make much difference but I would like to know the diameter of the shafts.

Tajue17 · December 28, 2013, 09:30:00 AM

his point is if someone can harvest a deer with a 35lb bow using a arrow that's 10gr per # then why can't they use that same arrow out a of a 50lb bow I guess it makes sense but that arrow weight is for the mechanics of the bow also,, I'm not familiar with these new hybrid recurves so who knows.

Pat B · December 28, 2013, 09:31:00 AM

Does your bow and arrow set-up shoot well for you? If so, why confuse yourself.

KenH · December 28, 2013, 09:44:00 AM

Phone book penetration has nothing to do with the real world of carcass penetration. It's great if all you ever plan on killing is a yellow pages.

If you want to know what your setup of broadhead or field point or bodkin and shaft will do to an animal, invest a couple bucks in some ballistic gel. That's what people ho are serious about ballistics(whether firearm, atlatl dart or arrow) use as a standard for comparison.

Sure you can (maybe) shoot cattail reed arrows from your 100# hot-shot composite bow, but you run the risk of shattering the bow because insufficient energy is transferred from the drawn bow to the arrow.

Benjy · December 28, 2013, 10:03:00 AM

Just start reading all the comments about the video. It will be as clear as mud!

December 28, 2013, 10:12:00 AM

If I had a bow that would shoot 215fps, I would not worry about arrow weight either. I do not own a bow that will do that, so I'll stick with my 10+ggp arrows and high FOC! He is comparing apples to oranges.

At any given speed, with two arrows identical except for weight, the heavier arrow will ALWAYS out-penetrate the lighter arrow (assumed that both arrows are well tuned).

I have a buddy that shoots heavy bows (72#-85#). He shoots very heavy arrows at about the same speeds that my 50# bows shots my 10gpp arrows. His arrows will always out penetrate mine because they are so much heavier.

Also, at 60# it is not going to matter much if you are shooting 8.5gpp or 11gpp. With that high of a draw weight you are going to get good penetration as long as your arrow is well tuned. I shoot 50# at my DL and want all the penetration I can get so I always tune an arrow that is over 10gpp to get a little more weight that will equal a little more penetration for me.

Bisch

bamboo · December 28, 2013, 11:22:00 AM

let him shoot an ultra-light set up--

http://www.tradgang.com/ashby/

Stephengiles · December 28, 2013, 12:11:00 PM

My bow vibrates, even when tuned, until I get close to 10gpp. Of course it's a cheap bow. Bugs me. If you don't like the way they fly drop 60grains off the front and get your FOC back to around 15%. Then you have a hunting arrow that more resembles a target arrow. Hey we all screw up a batch of arrows sometime. All I know is I've seen a lot of hunting shows where light arrows coming out of compounds have lousy penetration. That's enough to convince me. Heck I've got a bent aluminum arrow that on a target penetrates nearly as much a straight one. Don't mean I'll hunt with it.

katman · December 28, 2013, 01:31:00 PM

If YOU are accurate with your setup at hunting ranges don't worry about it. 184 fps is fast for a 660 gr hunting arrow.

Shooting 3D competitively I can see the advantage of speed.

Sam McMichael · December 28, 2013, 01:32:00 PM

There is no such thing as overkill. Assuming I am not overbowed and can shoot it accurately, I will always take the heavier tackle (both bow draw weight and arrow mass). Nothing wrong with the guys who prefer lighter tackle, this is just my opinion. Shoot what is most effective for you and don't worry about what "they" say.

Sixby · December 28, 2013, 04:33:00 PM

I'm wondering about arrow and point diameter , if the heavy arrow has a larger diameter that will really effect the penetration test.

God bless, Steve

**DONOTDELETE** · December 28, 2013, 04:35:00 PM

The testing was pretty apples and apples using the same bow with a nice consistent anchor point. the only thing off was the weight of the bow at his draw. When you put a bow on a hook like that, it's typically 2-3 pounds lighter than actually drawing with your fingers. If you weigh a bow with a wide hook its much more accurate.

check out this drawing.

There are not too many traditional bows out there i'd recommend shooting 7.5 gpp arrow out of. The bow isn't going to last to long, and you'd play hell getting them quiet enough to hunt with.

his remarks about shooting a traditional bow with a hooter shooter being worthless made me laugh. using a shooting machine is much more accurate than shooting by hand for testing purposes.

bowfanatik · December 28, 2013, 05:59:00 PM

This is a very good test, unfortunately not used trad bow, but I think it is important because we talk about penetration arrow

please - do not post anything about non-trad archery tackle - thank you.

bamboo · December 29, 2013, 10:38:00 AM

the test I saw was pseudo science--too many generalizations --"about a 1/4 inch...""nearly the same.."right down to rounding down the what the scale reads!!--and with a shooting machine in the next room-he chooses to finger shoot??

IMO the paper tests said it all--the clearly best hole was the light arrow he was tuned to--the others not so much-a small point but it does make a difference

IMO shooting all three into the same phone book compromises the testing--I can see the pages separating on each shot-too many variables for me
as well as shooting into the ballistic jell--after the first shot the medium is compromised-in fact when the camera goes to the rear of the target you can see the multiple fractures--

nit picking-maybe! but none the less variables!
and why not broadhead tests? isn't that what counts?

IMO the specs you list for your setup are extremely lethal! and over thinking this while applying this pseudo science is only unnecessary worry--

IMO your set up is excellent -go kill something!!

good luck!

Bob Moran · December 29, 2013, 11:36:00 AM

I really suspect the "test" showing that a light arrow penetrates as well as a heavy arrow. Momentum of an arrow (mass x velocity)is more important than energy (mass x velocity-squared). With energy, small changes in velocity will make great differences in energy. But, arrows kill by penetration and not mass shock and tissue destruction as bullets do. In archery, momentum will be more influenced by the mass of the arrow since differences in velocity between a light and heavy arrow will not be as great as the differences in mass could be.