History of the R/D design?

[Flingblade]

I currently own 2 recurves and 2 Hill bows.  Until recently I had no desire to own a r/d hybrid bow.  I think one of the reasons is I don't know much about the history of the design.  One of the draws to traditional archery for me is the history that goes along with it.  Not looking for advice on which one to buy, I'll do that research later when I am closer to buying.  So, what is the history of the r/d design?  Is there a particular bowyer that is credited with coming up with the design?  How long have they been around?  Was the r/d design around when Hill was building bows?  Just curious.

[KeganM]

The design is very old. There are examples in NA in Creek bows, as well as Egyptian composite bows.

There's nothing new in archery!

[slowbowjoe]

Haven't seen the Creek bows, but I've seen the Egyptian. strung,it's strikingly similar to a Shrew or Elkheart/Falcon.

[Hud]

If you can find a copy of Traditional Bowyers Encyclopedia, by Dan Bertalan. Read the story on Robertson Stykbow and how he started. 1st ed. 1989, and 2nd ed. 2007.

[LBR]

I lost the link, but there are cave drawings...in Spain, I think...of a deflex/reflex longbow.  It's much older than Howard Hill.

[Flingblade]

Sounds like the r/d design is as old as the bow itself.  If the design is more efficient and improved over the straight end longbow why was the straight end longbow used by so many for so long?  I may be wrong but it seems the r/d design has only gained popularity in the last 30 years or so.  
Hud, I will look for that book.  I did go to the Robertsen Stykbow website and looked at their Primal Styk.  It said they were the first company to offer the r/d design but didn't say what year.  Nice looking bows.  I like the d shape when braced.  Thanks.

[Sixby]

When you need to arm an army numbering into the thousands of archers you build the easiest  to build and do the job at hand, the straight longbow.


Its really that simple.

God bless, Steve

[Blackhawk]

There may have been lots of earlier r/d designs, but one of the earliest to make this type commercially available was Earl Hoyt Jr. who did so in the late 50's.  

Who remembers the Trophy and Rogue longbows?

[Traxx]

and they were called semi recurve and duoflex bows.

[KeganM]

Selfbows don't lend themselves as well to a D/R design as much as a composite does. Considering the sometimes short life expectancy of a selfbow, making it more stressed with additional may not be worth the invested time.

[Thumper Dunker]

Originally posted by Sixby:
When you need to arm an army numbering into the thousands of archers you build the easiest  to build and do the job at hand, the straight longbow.


Its really that simple.

God bless, Steve

+2

[SELFBOW19953]

Does a longbow with backset technically qualify as a "mild R/D"?

[nineworlds9]

Fling',
it's all quite simple really.  It's cultural.  The Hill-style bow is an evolution of the English longbow.  From the founding of this nation to the modern era our culture has been dominated by Anglo-saxon influences, this applied to archery as well.  As the others have said, there's nothing new under the sun in regards to tradbow design, just innovations and better craftsmanship.  Once America started coming out of its cultural isolation following WWII people in the archery world started getting interested in bow designs from other cultures, so the Hill-style stopped being the end-all-be-all of longbows.  Hill had a lot of feelings on shorter more radical bows, but it was all in the context of his time.  We've come along way, and it is silly to read his words and automatically think they are dogma relevant to this current age.  We live in a golden age of archery right now, with the best shooting bows that have ever been made.  It's amazing to think how things will continue to evolve little by little over the next 50+ years.

[LongStick64]

Have you studied Native American bows, the design has been in use as long as most designs. Just because most modern bowyers wrap the wood in fiberglass does not mean the design is new.

[jsweka]

Originally posted by SELFBOW19953:
Does a longbow with backset technically qualify as a "mild R/D"?

No.  It has to have some deflex - limbs arch toward the belly of the bow at the fadeouts from the riser.  Longbows that just have backset (like many "Hill Styles" or "American Semi Longbows") are not r/d.

[Pat B]

There are no new designs in archery. R/D, static recurves, working recurves, overdraws, release aids, performance backings and many others. Many of todays well used phrases are from archery history too; like the "rule of thumb", "the parting shot", "straight as an arrow" and more. Somewhere in my archery library is a long list of these phrases.  
Many of the Eastern Woodland cultures made R/D designs like the Seneca, Creek like Kegan suggested, Mohegan, some of the Penobscot, Cayuga, Oneida, Mohawk, Shawnee and the list goes on.

[Michael Pfander]

As an aside the Stotler R/D bow was designed by one of Howard's boyers, I think in the 40's.  He didn't like it.
MAP

[KenH]

Bows with serious amounts of reflex and deflex together go back well over 4000 years to early Persia as well as early Egypt (and who borrowed from whom is still up for debate).  This Akkadian recreation being done by Jack Farrell is based on archeological finds at least 3000 years old:

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[SlowBowinMO]

Yes there is not much new in archery. In the modern era, reflex deflex bows were being built and advertised in the 1940's.

Today we have some great execution and better materials though.

[Pat B]

"better materials" is a relative statement. What makes modern materials better? There were ancient bows that shot way farther than any modern bow can shoot today. I know selfbow makers tat can build bows that will outshoot many of today's high priced bows. I'd suggest that they are not better, just different.