CX HERITAGE 350. NOT STIFF ENOUGH

HATCHCHASER · August 27, 2007, 08:17:00 PM

I have a Fedora Extreme take down, 58@28". I draw it to 30" so I'm at about 64lbs. I tried bareshafting with 125 grain tip at full length and they are not stiff enough. I cut the arrows all the way down to 31" which is as short as I care to go. The arrows work perfect in my turkey creek 45@28", with 100 grain brass screw in inserts. About 51 lbs. at my 30" draw. What am I doing wrong? It seems that I should be way to stiff according to what everyone else is shooting.

Carbon Caster · August 27, 2007, 08:30:00 PM

Try some heavier points and see if you are not seeing a reverse reading. My guess is that you would need at least 200 grains up front on a 31" 350, probably a bit more even.

wapiti792 · August 27, 2007, 08:41:00 PM

Hatch, I shoot a Chek Mate at 64#. My arrows are 31 inch but they are the 250s. I shoot a 200gr phantom up front and get AWESOME flight. They bareshafted well (I bought the test kit from 3 Rivers first). I'd say you should add the 100 grain insert then add the tip! Good luck.

Shawn Leonard · August 27, 2007, 08:44:00 PM

What Brain said, I also do not believe they are not too stiff out of the Turkey Creek. I shot a TC that was 42#s at my 29" draw and a 30" shaft and shot a GT Entrada with a .600 deflection, sorry but no way! Shawn

Shawn Leonard · August 27, 2007, 08:45:00 PM

Should say with a point eight of 145 grains. Shawn

HATCHCHASER · August 27, 2007, 08:59:00 PM

They kicked right out of the turkey creek at full length. Shot straight with 100 grains of insert. They kicked left out of the heavier Fedora and continued to kick left all of the way down to 31" cutting them 1/4" at a time. I was getting closer to straight flight though. I do not want to drop point weight. I tried adding weight up front but it made the arrows kick further left. When I say kick I mean in the air the tail kicks left. I only used the TC for a variable because i knew that they would be too stiff for it. If it is "not possible" for this to happen then I would like to know what I am doing wrong.

Carbon Caster · August 27, 2007, 09:32:00 PM

I would bet your release is the culprit. VERY few shooters have a clean enough release to get REALLY accurate results bareshafting, including me. LOL!! Try fletching a couple up and shoot one broadhead arrow and 3 fieldtip arrows and see what happens. Also another good way to check if you are in the ballpark is to shoot a fletched fieldpoint arrow at about 50 yards and watch the flight or have someone else watch for you. Good luck in your quest for good arrow flight. My guess it lies in MORE point weight, but I have been wrong before. LOL!!!

HATCHCHASER · August 27, 2007, 10:00:00 PM

Thanks! I'll keep messing with it till I get it right. I have only had my bow for a few weeks and our deer season opens Sept. 8. I just started trad shooting last year and I am hooked. I don't even think I'll pick up my gun this year. my arrows seem to fly well with feathers and they hit where I am looking bareshaft. They just have that kick that more than likely is my release. Thanks again and keep the advice coming.

bm22 · August 27, 2007, 10:19:00 PM

from what i understand it is hard to get perfect bareshaft flight but it all depends on the group, if your bareshafts group with your fletched you should be good. don't worry about the kick just look at the "grouping"

BlkDog · August 27, 2007, 11:53:00 PM

I am fairly new to all this, but could the nock tension on the string have some affect and magnify a bad release? Nocks to tight?

BamBooBender · August 28, 2007, 12:16:00 AM

Is the Fedora cut past center?

BigJim · August 28, 2007, 06:29:00 AM

Hatchchaser- If you send those 350's to me, I will bare shaft them for ya out of my 67# widow. Of course at 29" they would be too short to send them back to you.
If I understood you corectly, you said they kick left in flight. I have been told that how the nock sits while arrow in the bag is the important thing.
I shoot those shafts and like them out of my 67#er but also had funny flight, but tuned straight in bag. (btw- I use 250g up front.
I shoot GT big game 100 out of my 82#er and the bare shaft flys true and straight out to 30 yards. Go figure. Anyway if you ever get the urge to come south and shoot some 3D. I have a 60 target range here in Albany,GA and your welcome to join me.
BigJim

HATCHCHASER · August 28, 2007, 07:53:00 AM

The Fedora is cut past center. Went to a couple of 3d shoots this year in gainesville. Would be great to find some more places to shoot 3d, thanks for the invite. I'm gonna try O.L.'s method for bareshafting and see what happens.

LCB · August 28, 2007, 10:33:00 AM

Personally I'm not crazy about O.L.'s way of bareshafting. I like to get near perfect flight with a bareshaft, and I do pay attention to nock and point of impact. I like my woodies to bareshaft a bit on the week side. When I shot carbons I looked for near perfect flight on an unfletched arrow. I have shot 350's out of my 64lb widow. They are a bit long, and 170gr up front.

BigHink66 · August 28, 2007, 12:06:00 PM

I may be wrong but, I thought that when bareshafting you didn't care about how the arrow flew. Just whether it would group with fletched arrows or not, and where they grouped in relation to the fletched arrows told the story of what to do next.

At least thats how I have done it, based off O.L.'s instructions.

After I completed this, my field points and broadheads would group together.

eagle24 · August 28, 2007, 12:22:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by BigHink66:
I may be wrong but, I thought that when bareshafting you didn't care about how the arrow flew. Just whether it would group with fletched arrows or not, and where they grouped in relation to the fletched arrows told the story of what to do next.

That is the way I interpret O.L.'s method also. However, my experience has been that if they are kicking they won't be grouping with the fletched arrows.

Hatchaser, If you are getting 350's to fly out of your 45# TC bow (even with the 100gr inserts), I gotta believe something is amiss. That is way heavier spined than what I'm shooting from my 45# TC (48# @ my 29"DL). Have you tried shooting any 500 or 600 shafts just to see what they do? I don't have any explanation about why the 350's seem to fly well, but I am shooting 500's w/145gr up front (full length) & 600's fly with 125gr.

Elk Chaser · August 28, 2007, 01:51:00 PM

I am shooting 30" trad 350's out of a DAS at 65# and there not to stiff.
Also shooting the CX trads out of a Border blk douglas at 60# shoot perfectly at 30" 150 head I am at 560 gr.
Hope it helps
Bill

BamBooBender · August 28, 2007, 01:54:00 PM

Bows that are cut past center usually need a heavier spine, especially with a narrow 5/16" arrow like a carbon. You could temporarily tape a piece of matchstick to your backplate and see if arrow flight improves.

BobW · August 28, 2007, 01:56:00 PM

32" CX Heritage 250s out of a 68" LB that is 56# @32" and I just about nick my hand (full draw, and then some). Point weight is 225. looking at uncuts for the next glue-up.

(Thanks Shawn!)

BobW

HATCHCHASER · August 28, 2007, 11:32:00 PM

I tried O.L.'s method today and got them to group. Full length with 225 grains total up front. I think the kicking arrow was from sloppy release because it wasn't so bad today. Shot a bare shaft through a wannabe block target. It's a red head, don't know if they are weaker but I only have half of the fletchings sticking out of the target when I shoot. This bow shoots hard and fast. Thanks for all the info guys.