BigJim asks, "What would you do?"

BigJim · June 04, 2012, 04:54:00 PM

A couple of weeks back, I made a verbal trade over the phone with a customer who insisted that he was honest and his word was solid.

The agreement, he was to send me his bow and a check and I was to send him a new Bear TD riser and limbs of his choice. It was also requested that I try the fit of the limbs in sockets of the riser and confirm that they fit tightly without slop. This I did and I boxed everything up and sent it on.

After returning from an event, I found a message on my machine from the same man claiming that I hadn't done what I promised and that he had to modify the limbs just to assemble the bow and he wasn't happy. The bow, while strung was now very crooked.

After a heated discussion and me being accused of being a liar, the man demanded his bow and check back (I haven't even opened his box to this day) and he was sending me mine back.

I received the bow today, verified that he indeed modified one of the limbs (sanded away the mating surface of the limb). I strung the bow to determine the damage and confirmed the crookedness of the altered bow.

I then mounted another new set of limbs and strung them to find out that with the unaltered limbs, the bow strung perfectly.

I have spoke to bear and explained the entire scenario. They told me "BigJim, we will replace them for you to help you out of this mess"

I told them that I didn't feel that it was their responsibility to take the loss just to keep someone from running down my name and refused to allow them to replace them.

Here's the question or questions:
Do you think I should have let a "big company" like Bear take a loss just so this man could have his way? Afterall, it is just a big company with lots of money.
Would you ask me to do this?
By the way, I still have his bow and check as I needed to see what damage he had done to mine first.
Thanks, bigjim

2treks · June 04, 2012, 05:01:00 PM

He should eat a set of limbs at a minimum,
Aint never known you to be anything but honest Jim. If it was crooked to start with, he should have sent it back straight away. No harm- no foul. And I think you did the right thing with Bear, they got no dog in this fight.

my 2cents

CTT

ron w · June 04, 2012, 05:09:00 PM

Everyone will have an opinion on this type of thing....some good , some bad. You are the one in business and only you can decide which way you want this to go.I guess I don't know why if they didn't fit properly in the first place why the customer would modify them...but he did! Hope it turns out well!

Bill Sant · June 04, 2012, 05:09:00 PM

Jim, As soon as he altered, sanded, played with the fit of any of the components, it is HIS. If it didn't fit like you sent it to him he might have a point, but in dealing with you as I have in the past, I'm sure he wouldn't have been dissatisfied with the final outcome. He screwed up when he took the sanding block to them. Good luck with the outcome, but your reputation as a solid guy to deal with is secure in my mind.

awbowman · June 04, 2012, 05:10:00 PM

To be honest, while it's not their fault, Bear is big enough to replace the limbs with no damage to their bottom line. They know that these things happen and it's the least disruptive thing to do. Unfortunately business is not what it used to be. I think you are opening yourself up to some time in small claims court if you don't "use" Bear's gracious offer.

I would accept Bear's offer to replace the limbs and send that no good SOB his bow and check back and tell him that you have severed your "working relationship" with him and that he can get his riser and limbs somewhere else. You sending him another set would be COMPLETELY off the table!

buckeye_hunter · June 04, 2012, 05:11:00 PM

I agree with Chuck, he should eat the cost of a set of limbs. However....

Depends on what you personally willing to tolerate. If you can and are willing to just let it go that can be easier.

Looking to the end result: is there any realistic way you will ever get the cash out of him? Is keeping his bow worth the trouble of having him spew bad things about your company? This is an unfortunate situation for you and only you know the answer you can live with for you and the name of your company. Do what will give you the best results financially and business wise.

Just my opinion and sorry you are dealing with this. I have heard a number of good things about your company.

-Charlie

Bill Carlsen · June 04, 2012, 05:12:00 PM

He at least owes you for messing up the limbs you sent. If you can get the cost of the limbs from selling the bow he sent you send him back his check and the damaged limbs and keep the bow, or send him the bow and cash his check. He may, however, may have stopped payment on the check. I would at least keep the bow.

Guru · June 04, 2012, 05:18:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Bill Sant:
Jim, As soon as he altered, sanded, played with the fit of any of the components, it is HIS. If it didn't fit like you sent it to him he might have a point, but in dealing with you as I have in the past, I'm sure he wouldn't have been dissatisfied with the final outcome. He screwed up when he took the sanding block to them. Good luck with the outcome, but your reputation as a solid guy to deal with is secure in my mind.

x2!

Pete McMiller · June 04, 2012, 05:20:00 PM

Certainly the buyer is at fault - you just can't ruin the product and expect the business to eat it. You buy a pair of shoes, you don't like them fine send them back UNLESS you walked outside with them on and scuffed the sole - then you bought them. No different here.

The other side of the coin is this........how much stress are willing to put into this? And #2 no matter what you do, the buyer will still likely bad mouth you. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Get out of it what you can and move on. Those of us who have done business with you know you are an honest man.

KOOK68 · June 04, 2012, 05:21:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Guru:

QuoteOriginally posted by Bill Sant:
Jim, As soon as he altered, sanded, played with the fit of any of the components, it is HIS. If it didn't fit like you sent it to him he might have a point, but in dealing with you as I have in the past, I'm sure he wouldn't have been dissatisfied with the final outcome. He screwed up when he took the sanding block to them. Good luck with the outcome, but your reputation as a solid guy to deal with is secure in my mind.
x2! [/b]

X3 :mad:

Raging Water · June 04, 2012, 05:24:00 PM

For all Honorable Men... Do not read if you are not Honorable.

Big Jim,

God gave us a Metering Device of Customer Service. It is our gut. In our gut, we know, what is right or wrong.

You are an Honorable man. So, as long as you have done what your "gut" told you to do, it is the right thing.

Matt

Gen273 · June 04, 2012, 05:27:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Bill Sant:
Jim, As soon as he altered, sanded, played with the fit of any of the components, it is HIS. If it didn't fit like you sent it to him he might have a point, but in dealing with you as I have in the past, I'm sure he wouldn't have been dissatisfied with the final outcome. He screwed up when he took the sanding block to them. Good luck with the outcome, but your reputation as a solid guy to deal with is secure in my mind.

X4

jcar315 · June 04, 2012, 05:30:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Bill Sant:
Jim, As soon as he altered, sanded, played with the fit of any of the components, it is HIS. If it didn't fit like you sent it to him he might have a point, but in dealing with you as I have in the past, I'm sure he wouldn't have been dissatisfied with the final outcome. He screwed up when he took the sanding block to them. Good luck with the outcome, but your reputation as a solid guy to deal with is secure in my mind.

X5

Well put Bill!

The whole "Wal-Mart customer service expectation" (I can do anything / not bear any responsibility myself and YOU have no right to ask any questions when I want my $ back) that some folks have is a real head scratcher. What I WOULD do is quite different from what I might WANT to do in a case like this.

drewsbow · June 04, 2012, 05:35:00 PM

Jim , You did the right thing with Bear and the customer is responsible for the damage and should take the hit for the limbs. You will have a bad costumer from time to time and thats part of dealing with people . You are solid gold as far as I'm concerned and everyone else that knows you as well I am sure .

hardtimes · June 04, 2012, 05:42:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Bill Sant:
Jim, As soon as he altered, sanded, played with the fit of any of the components, it is HIS. If it didn't fit like you sent it to him he might have a point, but in dealing with you as I have in the past, I'm sure he wouldn't have been dissatisfied with the final outcome. He screwed up when he took the sanding block to them. Good luck with the outcome, but your reputation as a solid guy to deal with is secure in my mind.

X6

Raging Water · June 04, 2012, 05:48:00 PM

Per your post.....

"I received the bow today, verified that he indeed modified one of the limbs (sanded away the mating surface of the limb). I strung the bow to determine the damage and confirmed the crookedness of the altered bow."

He altered it, he pays for it. No question!

Matt

Duker · June 04, 2012, 05:52:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Raging Water:
For all Honorable Men... Do not read if you are not Honorable.

Big Jim,

God gave us a Metering Device of Customer Service. It is our gut. In our gut, we know, what is right or wrong.

You are an Honorable man. So, as long as you have done what your "gut" told you to do, it is the right thing.

Matt

x2

Hummer3T · June 04, 2012, 05:55:00 PM

Jim, Let yourself settle down from the initial frustration and anger, then go with your gut feeling on what you feel is right. Just by posting this issue you show your integrity. You will come out the winner, Jim, whatever your decision.

Caddo · June 04, 2012, 05:55:00 PM

Everything has pretty much been covered. If he had a problem with what you sent, he should have returned it to you, untouched, and explained his issue. The minute he took it upon himself to make alterations, he bought it. If he wants a new set of limbs,he buys them.

LD

ishoot4thrills · June 04, 2012, 05:56:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Gen273:

QuoteOriginally posted by Bill Sant:
Jim, As soon as he altered, sanded, played with the fit of any of the components, it is HIS. If it didn't fit like you sent it to him he might have a point, but in dealing with you as I have in the past, I'm sure he wouldn't have been dissatisfied with the final outcome. He screwed up when he took the sanding block to them. Good luck with the outcome, but your reputation as a solid guy to deal with is secure in my mind.
X4 [/b]

Exactly!

I've done business with you as well and I know you are a well respected man of your word(not to mention the fact that you make beautiful bows!).

It's a tough decision about deciding exactly what to do about him, though.

I guess I would be very tempted to just send him back the Bear T/D bow with a letter stating that when he altered the bow/limbs without contacting you first, he made a big mistake. He should take the loss from being ignorant, not you.