In a funk (going for the reset button) STRANGE DISCOVERY

[Robert Honaker]

Ok, I've been very successful with a recurve on the range and in the field over the years, but I have recently been in a serious FUNK with my shooting. I don't know what has happened. Been so bad that I have bought a couple new "high-end" bows hoping a new feel or grip or whatever would put me back on track. No LUCK. Although I did end up with a really nice Silvertip in the process.

My biggest problem is I always, no matter which bow, get a kick up from the arrow like the NP isn't set right. Always. It's driving me nuts for over a year now.

So here's the plan...I just layed out one feathered and one bareshaft 2018, 2020, 2117, and 2216  30" long. FP's of 125gr thru 250gr are ready.

I have never had anyluck with bareshafting but I have to try something or the upcoming season is in jeopardy. I won't hunt if my arra's aren't true.

I will be shooting my 58" Silvertip, 56# at my 29" draw, FF string, right handed, off the shelf with my brace at 7 5/8.

I will post any questions I have along the way and also progress. It may take a few days as I don't want to shoot enough at one time to tire and skew the results.
Here goes!                

PS. Any and all advice is appreciated.

Here is a static pic of my pre shot form. I hold for a couple secs.

 

[lpcjon2]

I would go back to the basics of form.We all tend to get habits we don't realize.This is what I would start on first.IMHO

[LongStick64]

I had the same problem until I switched to three under. You may be putting too much presure on the nocks.

[kevgsp]

downward pressure on the arrow at full draw can cause the kick up, just a thought.

[Robert Honaker]

I have tried three under...yuck. Just can't get the feel for it.

I may use two nocks though, one over and one under.

[KAZ]

Robert - Just a quick observation, I do not own a Silver Tip however 7-5/8" brace height seems low to me... I shoot my Black Widow @8-5/8". If it were me I would increase the brace height while monitoring feel, vibration, sound, and of course arrow flight. You'll need to adjust your nock height as you fiddle with brace height. Maybe start with 1/2"to 5/8" above horizontal to the shelf to the bottom of the nock-set. For split finger I would think this would show you a nock high leaving the bow but this should avoid false readings from hitting the shelf, then you can move it down as you dial it in. This setting will depend on your arrow/nock diameter so you'll just have to see. Shelf build-up and Bow Limb Tiller also affect your nock travel so if necessary we could dive in deeper. If the Silver Tip really likes that low of a brace height and tiller is decent then many other variables exist, High FOC can make nock point settings much more critical and a tighter window of forgiveness... Enough for now, let us know if we can help with specifics.

[xtrema312]

My first thought is arrow sliding down the string or index finger pressure on the arrow.  Check the arrow shaft with your eyes at full draw and move the finger pressure some to see if the arrow is flexing down.  To fix try getting the index finger up a little above the arrow at the draw, put a little more pressure on the middle finger at the start of the take up of the string, and use a good deep hook.  Also watch the string torque with the lower fingers if you cant.  This also cause shelf hits and nock high arrow kick.

[Robert Honaker]

KAZ, I been up as high as 8 1/4 for brace. I asked Beth at Schafer and got a reply that 7 1/4 to 7 1/2 would be pretty close on that model. It is quiet there.

Just got in from shooting. As usaul bareshafting proves useless to me.  Every bareshaft hit 8 - 10in low of fletched out to 30yds. Started at 1/4 nock to 3/4in. I was always midline, but still horrible kick-up. Not one time did I ever have a bareshaft hit above a fletched.
2020 was best with 150gr pt, but when I put a broadhead on it sucked. That was at 9/16 NP.

9/16 seems to be the best, but bareshaft dives there too. Even tried 3 under.

[bornagainbowhunter]

You might want to video your shooting.  This will let you pick it apart in slo-mo to see where the problem lies.  If you have the same problem with several different bows, not being critical, its is you or your form.

[tecum-tha]

I don't get what your problem really is?
Is it erratic arrow flight with a bow and arrow combination that worked great before?
I think it is more a new "nice looking" bow.
What was the old bow and arrow combo that worked great?
Are the arrows riding up and down and nock point adjustments don't help? What are your arrows doing?
Are you shooting with a tab or glove?
Did you check for a string groove in your glove or tab that hooks into the string leading to an uneven release? (Not all fingers in the same line?)
Different arrows will only help for left and right shooting problems. Can you group arrows within reason?
Did you ever try a tab with a finger seperator?
Try this:
Nock point 5/8 of an inch above square. Take care how you place your fingers on the string and "pull" bow for about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch.
Like that you lock your fingers in place and get a consistent hand position. Then raise bow arm and pull normal into your anchor point.
Concentrate on a good follow-through....

[MSwickard]

Robert

Set your nock point so you nock the arrow above the nock point.  If you are getting some downward pressure on release, this will keep the arrow from sliding down the string.

Mike

[Ragnarok Forge]

Another vote for get your form right and your probably torquing the arrow away from the nock or torquing the arrow into the nock.  I struggle with this with the same results and had to retrain myself on the right finger "hook" tension on the string without squeezing my fingers together on the arrow.

If you were shooting great and now it sucks it is the ground connection, not the equipment.  Focus on your form and definately video.  Video review is helping me solve the problems I have been struggling with.

[Buckeye Trad Hunter]

Originally posted by KAZ:
Robert - Just a quick observation, I do not own a Silver Tip however 7-5/8" brace height seems low to me... I shoot my Black Widow @8-5/8". If it were me I would increase the brace height while monitoring feel, vibration, sound, and of course arrow flight. You'll need to adjust your nock height as you fiddle with brace height. Maybe start with 1/2"to 5/8" above horizontal to the shelf to the bottom of the nock-set. For split finger I would think this would show you a nock high leaving the bow but this should avoid false readings from hitting the shelf, then you can move it down as you dial it in. This setting will depend on your arrow/nock diameter so you'll just have to see. Shelf build-up and Bow Limb Tiller also affect your nock travel so if necessary we could dive in deeper. If the Silver Tip really likes that low of a brace height and tiller is decent then many other variables exist, High FOC can make nock point settings much more critical and a tighter window of forgiveness... Enough for now, let us know if we can help with specifics.

Black widows have such a high brace height because their design is a rear mounted limb system.  Generaly somewhere in the neighborhood of 7 1/2" is a good brace height for a regular front mounted limb design.

Are you torqueing the string (twisting your hand) while you're shooting?

[mattmcdonald]

have you tried just pulling back and relaseing fast i dont know a whole lot about it but it has helped me before i can be shooting poorly and do that and hit right where i want i think it just takes your mind off messing up

[Robert Honaker]

tecum-tha, yes had the same problem with a bow that I  used to shootgreat with. I know it's me. I suck.

My accuracy is still good. I can puttem in a 4-6in circle at 35yds, but always the kick up like I said.  

I used to shoot at 40- 60 yds and was very good. Not so anymore.
I know a new bow doesn't fix it. Just looking for a new feel to hopefully find my groove. That's a good excuse to get one anyways.lol

[COMPOUNDLESS IN CONCRETE]

Definitely use a nocking point above and below the arrow nock.  I use to get that little "hiccup" and had moved the nocking point to the extreme in both directions with no improvement, it would actually get worse.  I read on here about add a nock point underneath and tried it and it worked.  I use B-50 string material for both nocking points.

There use to be a video on youtube showing how much upward pressure is on the bowstring when a release is attached directly to the string.  I know, that is compound related but I think the same upward pressure is applied with fingers.  It showed how upon release, the arrow slipped down the string during release and bounced off the arrow rest or in our case the shelf.

[Ray]

Looking at your pic,you might try raising your knock point.Your form looks good but at full draw your arrow(to me)looks low on the knock end.

[chopx2]

In an effort to help the process of elimination:

Did you change anything? Different nocks, different rest/shelf material? Did you try rotating yout cock feather in? Did you check the tiller of your limbs?

Do you have or know someone who has a mechanical release? That would tell you if it is your string hand.

[Grant Young]

Robert- When my arrow flight suffers like you described and I check out my brace ht. and NP and they are fine, I have to figure it's me. I have always ( waay over forty years) had a tendency to let my ring finger get a little "lazy" and just go along for the ride. When that happens, my arrow flight suffers. To correct the problem, I make sure to get a good, solid deep hook with my third finger and the problem almost always goes away. I know that most of the time, our issues and cures are highly personal and its tough (for me,anyway)to promote my quirks at large but that may help a little.  Grant

[tecum-tha]

Ray is right, in the picture this looks a little odd.Did you change your grip style from a low wrist to a high wrist? That would lead to a difference in elevation of the front of the arrow at full draw. Did you change your anchor finger from middlefinger to forefinger?