Problems with EFOC.

[jonsimoneau]

I love to tinker.  But Extreme forwar of center is not something I have figured out.  I've tried it a number of times.  Maybe it is my shooting style, but normally, My arrows do weird things.  I mess around with various sizes of cabon arrows.  It seems that no matter what I do, my arrows show stiff.  Even when I shoot a setup that I KNOW is too weak, my arrows will bareshaft left. (I'm a right handed shooter).  I then procede to go up in spine, and still I get the same results.  Maybe I just don't get it, but I have had pretty good luck with arrows set up the normal way.  I do appreciate the fact that extreme forward of center penetrate better, but until I get it right...I'll just stick with my regular arrow recipies.

[Orion]

If a shaft that you think is too weak flies to the left, indicating it's too stiff, why would you go up in spine?  Either need to go down in spine or add point weight.

[30coupe]

Jon,

Here is my setup for my 46# Kanati:

ARROW   length   30
shaft+feathers+nock wt      245
separate insert weight?      30
adapter weight?      100
point weight      135
total arrow weight      510
balance length      22.38
   FOC %   24.60
      
draw wt   46
arrow wt 510   GPP 11.09

These shoot like darts. I am using a Beman ICS Bowhunter 500 shaft.

Hope this helps. These things shoot through everything and hit right where I'm looking. The Kanati is cut to center, which may make a difference if yours is not.

Russ

[Fletcher]

The best I can tell you, Jon, is to go with what the arrow is telling you, not what you think it should be.  I say that because I've learned it the hard way (read my tag line).

I paper tune with woods rather than bareshafting carbons, but tuning is tuning; just a different road to the same place.  Good Luck!

[Ragnarok Forge]

If your showing stiff go weaker in spine.  I am shooting 600 spined arrows with 400 grains up front and they spine out perfect at 30 inches of arrow out of a 55lb reflex deflex longbow.  They shoot like bullets, spine out perfect and are close to 30% EFOC.  I spent a bunch of money on heavier spined arrows before I listened to what the arrows were telling me.

[eric-thor]

put feathers and a blade on on and see what it does

[eric-thor]

baby its something in your form / release

[eric-thor]

sry i ment maby not baby  

[Terry Green]

I hear ya Jon.....I've been pulling my bloody arrows out of the dirt for 25 years....didn't even know what my FOC was for most of those years.  

I don't know how I've managed to kill anything without all the 'crazes' and 're-inventions' as of late.

Some exact FOC number didn't put that buck in your avatar....YOU DID.  Keep putting stock in yourself, and don't worry about what's being touted as 'the latest greatest'.

Laser arrow flight, sharp heads, and accuracy is where its at Vern....KnowwhatImean?

[Don Stokes]

Right on, Terry. There's no magic in this stuff. If it ain't broke...

[Bowmania]

It still drive me nuts.  Out of one bow, I can get carbons with deflections of .600, .500, and .400 to fly perfect with feathers.  I'm talking bare shafts through paper with bullet holes or holes to 1.5 inches.  I suspect I could get an ACC 0.300 to fly at 50 lbs.  Not willing to buy a half doz for 75 bucks to find out.

Bowmania

[rolltidehunter]

jonsimoneau i dit the same thing. i just wanted to play around with some new arrows this summer so i built one with High FOC too. it was hard to figure it out but i did it.

whats your draw length?

hers my set up. 53lbs@26.5 draw

easton axis FMJ 400 spine
28 in arrow 270 grains up front
100 brass insert 170 BH
wraps/feather
total grains right at 600

24% FOC

[James Wrenn]

Sometimes what you know is not the truth.:)Sounds like the shaft you know is weak is not really weak at all.I would try a heavier point on the weak shaft to see what happens.Usually when nothing changes like you going to stiffer spines,means you are going the wrong way in your tuning or thinking.

[vermonster13]

DO what works and the bow tells you. Dead is dead.

[rolltidehunter]

terry.. FWIW Richie is a awesome guy ,he knows his stuff and is a heck of a shot. his arrows are awesome i think 800 plus grains, fly like darts and could probably break a waterbuff sholder!

Richie i found a old recurve of mine when i was about your sons age. ill bring it to the HH if your going..  he can have it. he can fing some arrows with us.

Jonsimon whats your draw length?

[lt-m-grow]

I don't get the problem some folks have with folks screwing around with different arrow setups.  To each their own...play, enjoy.  Whatever works.  

And the "dead is dead" argument is a red herring.  Many of those same folks swap broadheads and bows like water.  So if your bow made it dead or your broadhead made it dead, why change?  You change because trying new bows and broadheads is fun for you.  Nothing wrong with that either.

There is 25,000 gang'ers.  Different things will trip different triggers...it is all good.

And back to Jon, what Orion asked is a good question...

[vermonster13]

You're missing my point. Dead is dead is saying don't get to caught up in what you read and go by what you see/experience. I like messing with the stuff, but I also don't tell a bow what it is going to shoot, I go by what flies best. The object in the end is to make meat for most of us, the rest is a way to fill the time between seasons.

[Friend]

I am assuming that Dr Ashby's study on EFOC has stimulated your desire to obtain ultra FOC.

Please note that Dr. Ashby places arow flight ahead of extreme FOC in his list of penetration
enhancing factors which he has listed in order of importance. Whatever arrow design you choose, you would do well to consider structual integrity and arrow flight before EFOC. Don't wait until an unexpected shot opporuntiy on a trophy at <5yards provides this instruction.

[olddogrib]

Jon,
I shoot a Morrison Cheyenne and Shawnee @ 46#.  Your riser may have different center shot, but I would think a Axis or Beman 400, full length, with 100 grain inserts would be something you could tune. You may still need 200-250 grains of point weight, but it will out penetrate anything you've ever seen!

[Yellow Dog]

Most of my bows are 50# and under at my 30" draw length. I've had very good luck tuning and shooting carbons in the 450 grain range with 125 grain heads, 9 to 10 grains per pound depending on the bow. Got caught up in the high FOC thing and tried to bump up my arrow weight by adding heavy inserts, adapters and points. Just couldn't get them to tune well. Finally came to the realization that if I want a heavy arrow I shoot aluminums, and if I want more speed I can kill anything in North America with my 9 to 10 grain per pound setup with carbons. At that point I quit worrying about it and just shoot what works for me.