Outfitter Ethics??

Bonecracker · March 17, 2010, 11:15:00 AM

I want to bounce this off some of you and get your opinion!! I am not going to use any outfitter names but I do want to hear your feedback on this subject! I did a Hog Hunt this past weekend and it was not for free!! It was not cheap but on the other hand, it was not expensive! As a matter of fact I was one of the lucky ones who was able to drive (5 1/2 hours) vs most drove from very long distances (20 hours) and others flew in for this Fri, Sat, Sunday hunt!

This outfitter has a very nice piece of leased property with alot of hogs. He had about 18-20 functioning feeders running with stands set-up for 12-20 yard shots! We had the maximum amount of hunters in camp (12) that had paid deposites before hand! Thats were the fun starts! Turns out that another group of hunters (11/12) who hunted with this outfitter last year told him that they wanted to come back in 2010 and hunt the same weekend. So fast forward to Friday 3/12! They show up with there campers, very little notice (they said they send one e-mail to confirm), and no deposits!

So the question was put to us (we had paid our deposits), what do we do?? Do we let these guys hunt or do we send them home?? I decided to let the guys who had flown in or drove extended distance make that decision! They chose to let the group stay which in hind sight was not a good thing! These hogs are hunted hard (almost every weekend) and it was not good for the group as a whole!! The hogs did not have an open feeder as they say! They kind of remined me of hunting heavily pressured whitetails!! U see very little of them at close range!

As for me, I saw plenty of hogs (13) but no shots at boars!! I did have 4 sows come into 10 yards but they winded me when I was drawing my bow!! Most of the quality hogs stayed back 40 to 70 yards as they new the gig was up! One guy in our group did harvest a 90lb sow and another lost a boar. The rest of our group had no shots. The other group (compounders) were able to take 3 hogs for the weekend!

Mint · March 17, 2010, 11:24:00 AM

He should have cut your fee by 50% at the least if he had twice as many people in camp as promised.

LV2HUNT · March 17, 2010, 11:26:00 AM

Well, the decision was put to you guys and you were generous which may have had an adverse effect on your own hunt.

I would say you guys were pretty darned nice and hopefully good karma will come your way.

Gordy · March 17, 2010, 11:26:00 AM

I dunno about the hunting.. but you gotta give us the low-down on those boots... er crocks ? !

Bonecracker · March 17, 2010, 11:32:00 AM

I brought my knee high rubber boots and a pair of hip waders to hunt in! The first evening hunt, it poured staight for 2 hours and everything was wet on me. Let's just say my rubber boots were filled with water and I chose to wear my camp shoes for the rest of the hunt! Yes they are Crocks, yes they are comfortable, and yes they make good stalking shoes with the proper wool sock of course! LOL!

Ground Hunter · March 17, 2010, 11:36:00 AM

Well I think that you guys did the right thing regardless of the outfitter. Doing the right thing will likely come back to you in a good way. I think that the outfitter should have done something, cut your costs or offered the place at a later time for a discount. They may still do that - you never know. Anyway, dude get some different shoes! Ha H

Ragnarok Forge · March 17, 2010, 11:37:00 AM

Good Karma is headed your way. Your generosity made for a tough weekend for you and let the other guys have a good and fun weekend. What goes around comes around.

As for ethics. Your guide / host should never have allowed the other hunters on the lease while pre-paid customers where there. Your deposits guaranteed your rights to hunt with only you and your buddies. His behavior would be like me filling my guide boat with paid customers and last minute adding another 4 people to the boat. The boat would be over loaded, no one would do well, and everyone would have a bad day. Totally unethical! He seems to be more worried about getting the money and keeping repeat customers than providing what your contract with him required. Your deposits legally guaranteed that he would only allow his stated maximum # of hunters on the property. When he asked if they could hunt he violated his legal contract. As such you should all be getting your money back in full.

If it was me I would definately never return to his place. Find someone with good ethics to do business with. There are some guys on here who have hog hunting. I hear they are fabulous to hunt with and have good properties to hunt on.

lt-m-grow · March 17, 2010, 11:47:00 AM

I would have made the same decision you did even knowing that I would get the same results you did. You were between a rock and hard place.

You are a good person and good things happen to good people.

Chat with the outfitter in a week or two, I bet he or she feels bad too and they should do something for you. And if they don't - don't be afraid to point out that the outfitter made out in this deal.

speedwalker · March 17, 2010, 12:02:00 PM

It shouldn't have been your call. The "outfitter" should have been man enough to tell the other guys "sorry" and let you guys have the place. I also think that you name the guy with the results so that someone else doesn't have the same results.

Bowshot · March 17, 2010, 12:11:00 PM

You didn't get what you agreed to, plain and simple.
He is in the business to make money,and he did. You agreed to a hunt with 12 guys not 24 on the same playing field, you should get some compensation. Outfitted hunts are business transactions and you should treat it as such. A refund or a break on a return trip would be my choice, then haggle on the price of the next trip as you did hunt.
I have worked for a couple of outfitters and have been on a few paid hunts, from the Yukon to Texas and it seems that there are always things going on, both sides of the equation. It is one of the things that keeps the world spinning.

Terry

foamkiller · March 17, 2010, 01:05:00 PM

Wow this sounds like Archery Outfitters in Florida. I went on one of his "seminar" deer hunts in Georgia a few years ago. There were 50+ hunters on 6000 acres. When we got to chose our hunting area I was second in line.......sounds like I get to pick a good area right. But no..........past client groups had preference and I got well..........a hunting area that was.......poor to say the least. I just counted it as a learning experience....just say no to any offers from this outfitter.

BobCo 1965 · March 17, 2010, 01:10:00 PM

On a decision like this I would have thought about it for a little while and not answered off the cuff.

I would have told the outfitter that this is his outfit therefore his decision. Leaving the decision up to the hunters was not fair IMO.

What he was doing in essence was relieving himself as being the "bad guy". This was very cowardly IMO.

hayslope · March 17, 2010, 01:19:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by BobCo 1965:
On a decision like this I would have thought about it for a little while and not answered off the cuff.

I would have told the outfitter that this is his outfit therefore his decision. Leaving the decision up to the hunters was not fair IMO.

What he was doing in essence was relieving himself as being the "bad guy". This was very cowardly IMO.

Exactly..........the outfitter can now say "No harm - No foul" "You guys said it was OK"

Sleazy - YES, Ethical - NO, Lessons Learned - Priceless (obviously you guys won't be repeat customers!)

Bjorn · March 17, 2010, 01:42:00 PM

What a load of crap the outfitter forced upon you guys! Setting you all up as the bad guys if you said 'no'.
Very bad business, don't go back to that outfitter again!
Personally I would feel very ripped off of time and money. Not a lot of good karma when you have to pay for it!

JohnV · March 17, 2010, 01:55:00 PM

You should approach the outfitter and politely, but firmly, ask him to make things right with your group. At a minimum, I think he owes you a chance to return at half-price or lower with his gaurantee that camp will not be overbooked. If he refuses to make things right, I would go out of my way to identify this outfitter to all concerned as an operation to avoid.

tarponnut · March 17, 2010, 02:03:00 PM

I would call the outfitter and ask for a good portion of your money back or a free hunt in the future(with the guarantee that another group would not be there).
That's awful business practice!
I would also let US know who it is so we won't book with that outfitter in the future(if he doesn't make it right)

Earthdog · March 17, 2010, 02:11:00 PM

Somebody that lets a group of compounders in on the action is asking for the obvious,from that second on everything that happens is due to that one decission and is not of the outfitters making.
People should just take responsibility for their own foolish actions,,,not go looking some somebody to blame after the fact.
My responce to the other group would of included only two words.

Bonecracker · March 17, 2010, 03:02:00 PM

I leave for a while and man it looks like alot of folks have expressed my feelings on this subject! I do feel it was the outfitters job to handle that situation and he put it off on us! That was wrong!!! Heck, some guys drove 20 hours to hunt and others flew in from the West Coast!! I was not wimping out on them but felt it best to let them make the call. See I was the outsider in this group and asked to join them as they needed a few more hunters to make the required 11/12 bow hunter. So not knowing these guys at all (besides some brief conversation on TradGang) really caused me to keep my mouth shut which is a hard thing for me to do! LOL!!

Most of these guys do not have access to hogs and I could see the enthusiasm at the begenning of the hunt! When they decided to let the other group hunt, I had a bad feeling in my gut about that decision! Outwardly I tried to act positive about the decision but heck, I can hunt hogs close to home and did so the week before this hunt!

Again this was the outfitter job to handle, not the hunters! We fullfilled our end of the bargin!

In closing I want to add that the fellowship was great, got to meet some great new traditional guys, and shoot alot of longbows and recurves. Man those compounders just do not understand that!!! LOL!

PS: One of the guys from the other group asked me how I aimed my bow and how I shot so well?
My answer: Do you aim a baseball when you throw it? Smile!!!

Blackhawk · March 17, 2010, 04:16:00 PM

I would not be happy under the circumstances and let the outfitter know. I would want a partial or full refund...and no rain checks since I would never return to the place.

There are too many well-run operations where I can spend my hard earned money.

mjdglobal · March 17, 2010, 04:53:00 PM

This is just awful. I really feel bad for you guys. I would call the outfitter and give him an opportunity to try and make it right. If he don't, you should call him out right here on this site. I've been 'taken' by an outfitter before, and it's terrible. You and the rest of your party spent your hard earned money on this trip and were basically ripped off. Just like you should spread the word about a good outfitter, you should tell people about the bad ones.