Wood Vs Carbon Arrows?

Eric73 · February 15, 2010, 12:49:00 PM

Okay I have been shooting for quite some time using all wood arrows and Not noticing much of a improvement. I have spent the last six months really just working on form close range every night.

So I went out to the range And I brought several sets of wood Arrows all spinned for my bows and close in weight. I also brought a set of Carbon express 250's that came with my Black widow recurve.

The long and short was with the recurve and the long bow I was able to get a tight group in the dead center consistently about 3.5 inches max with the carbon arrows. Yet with the wood arrows I could not get anything consistent. At best a 12'' group.

I have been making shafts for ages and thought I might be making a fundamental error in it so I picked up a dozen completed arrows from three rivers, whispering winds, and from arrowwoods.com. With the same result.

The only thing I can think of is the Carbon has a larger spine range and I am just missing it with the wood? But I would think that would just move them left or right consistently.

Does anyone have a Idea what I might be doing to have such drastic difference between wood and Carbon shafts? Any help would be appreciated as i compete in group that we have to use wood shafts.
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DesertDude · February 15, 2010, 01:02:00 PM

pm sent

George D. Stout · February 15, 2010, 01:04:00 PM

Either you have bad wood shafts, incorrect spine, or you are doing something different with the wood. There is no plausable reason for a 12" group vs a 3.5 with the carbons. A nearly 9" difference is probably erratic arrow flight and bad spine.

Jeremy · February 15, 2010, 01:05:00 PM

If you spend the time to match the woodies and keep them straight you can stack them together, but carbon is going to be more consistent, shaft to shaft (or at least it's supposed to be :mad: )

The other factor to consider is that carbon arrows will recover from paradox quicker. The quicker an arrow recovers the less sensitive it will be to release/form/other shooter errors.

Me, I use hardwoods mostly. The last batch of carbons I bought didn't hold up worth a da** to stumping.

Jim Curlee · February 15, 2010, 01:08:00 PM

The mind is a powerfull tool.
If you think something works good, you will make it work good, even when you don't know it.
There is nothing wrong with wood!
You just need to do some bareshafting.
Jim

m midd · February 15, 2010, 01:13:00 PM

I agree with what Jim.

Eric73 · February 15, 2010, 01:21:00 PM

That is the odd thing is I started bare shaft tunning. I have three arrows of each dozen that are with out fletching. And I can get them grouping in the center at 5 yards along with the fleched.

I had not heard that the Carbon arrows recover faster from a poor release, That may be it. I was testing at 20 yards and did not try any farther because I figured if I was blowing it at 20 no reason to back up.

I have seen plenty of people using wood arrows and doing great with some I am sure either I am going back to a flaw in style with the Wood or The spine and straightness need to be checked. I hoping it is just my release. I use a split finger release with a glove maybe I am pinching the wood and not the carbon?

Don Stokes · February 15, 2010, 01:34:00 PM

Eric, if your woodies bare shaft well, there's no reason for them to shoot worse than the carbons. When I have "bad" woods that I know are the right spine, it's usually a crooked nock. That will cause more problems with accuracy than anything else IMO.

You have to be sure that the woods all spine the same, within a few pounds, to get equal performance. If you don't have a spine tester, I recommend that you get one. Just because the supplier advertised matched shafts, that doesn't mean they actually are.

Another possibility is fletching clearance. If you know everything else is right, try turning the cock feather in. If it's a clearance problem, that should make a difference.

Jason R. Wesbrock · February 15, 2010, 01:47:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Eric73:
That is the odd thing is I started bare shaft tunning. I have three arrows of each dozen that are with out fletching. And I can get them grouping in the center at 5 yards along with the fleched.

One suggestion: Bare shaft tuning at 5 yards is pretty much worthless. The shaft doesn't have enough time to start planing to get any meaningful results. I'd start at a minimum of 15 yards.

L82HUNT · February 15, 2010, 01:51:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:

QuoteOriginally posted by Eric73:
That is the odd thing is I started bare shaft tunning. I have three arrows of each dozen that are with out fletching. And I can get them grouping in the center at 5 yards along with the fleched.

One suggestion: Bare shaft tuning at 5 yards is pretty much worthless. The shaft doesn't have enough time to start planing to get any meaningful results. I'd start at a minimum of 15 yards. [/b]

YES

Gottabow · February 15, 2010, 01:51:00 PM

I would think if your getting good groups with the carbon and not the woodies..maybe your knocking point is to low for the woodies. A fatter wood arrow will have a slightly higher knocking point than a skinny carbon..just a thought.

Bjorn · February 15, 2010, 02:10:00 PM

On the bright side this gives you an idea how much better you can make your woodies!
Comparing the grouping and accuracy of good woodies to good carbons the difference is miniscule or less.
There are a couple of foundational items you need if you don't have them: Spine tester, woodchuck, grain scale, a proper fletching tool like a Bitzenberger, decent wood and the ability to finger straighten. And Presto!!

Jim Curlee · February 15, 2010, 02:49:00 PM

You have to be back 17-20 yards, you have to see what the arrow is doing, not how it sticks, or hits the target. Watch the flight of the arrow.
I've spined alot of shafts over the years, I can tell you that right now on average, you get a little better than 65% of whats marked on the box. The big suppliers don't have the time or inclination to spine your shafts. So that leaves you with 35% of your arrows that are not going to shoot.
Buy hand spined shafts, or get a spine tester. Spine is THE most important thing to getting good arrow flight. It's not FOC!
Jim

WESTBROOK · February 15, 2010, 02:49:00 PM

Exactly what Bjorn said!

Good tapers are very omportant.

When I got a spine tester it was a real eye-opener! Shafts that were supposed to be a #5 spread were close to #10, one set had a #12 spread.

Making a good set of woodies will consume a little more of your time than carbon or alunimum.

Eric

Eric73 · February 15, 2010, 02:54:00 PM

A good part of the issue is I may have done all my bare shaft tuning just to close I will move out to 15 yards. SO the nock and maybe even the brace heights are all off for the wood but on for the carbon.

I do have a spine tester and a woodchuck taper tool and a Bitzenberger for the fletching. My grain scale is broken I will have toi get a new one. I always wonder if I am using the spine tester correctly? But when ever I order pre-made shafts they agree with the spine tester for what I ordered.

flingingwood · February 15, 2010, 03:00:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by George D. Stout:
Either you have bad wood shafts, incorrect spine, or you are doing something different with the wood. There is no plausable reason for a 12" group vs a 3.5 with the carbons. A nearly 9" difference is probably erratic arrow flight and bad spine.

George you have no idea how many of your posts I read, all of it good stuff. If only you sat at the lunch counter of my local lunch place.

February 15, 2010, 03:05:00 PM

I have had a couple sets of wood shafts that half of the batch simply would not fly right. Occasionally, I will get one or two that have a mind of their own, but if it is a whole set of arrows I would say something else is going on. When I had a shooting machine, I could tell very little difference between woods and anything else. Back then I used it to find differences in fiberglass shafts. I would not recommend building a good shooting machine. It is amazing how many arrows one can wreck when it is set up right.

GREASEMAN · February 15, 2010, 03:09:00 PM

I shot Woodies for more years than I can count and found that if the spine is correct for my Bows,and assuming that I had good quality shafts,I never had an issue with flight or accuracy unless I had a warped shaft.
But,I did try the carbon shfts last year and am sold the Carbon Express Heritage 90's & 150's for consistant weight and flight characteristics,as well as, being able to tune the arrow by weight etc.

Chris Shelton · February 15, 2010, 04:43:00 PM

I think you are really comparing a hummer to a station wagon. One is really strong and light, one is weaker and heavy. the only major difference between wood and carbon is that wood breaks easily and carbon does not

Don Stokes · February 15, 2010, 09:54:00 PM

I have a picture that I can't post here because it involves a compound bow. It's a 20-yard regulation indoor target with 5 wood arrows in the 5 x-rings, no other holes. That's what good woods can do, if they're properly matched to the bow and each other, even a compound. Dan Quillian had one of his employees who was a serious compound competitor do this, to make a point.

Good woods are as good as anything, if you know what you're doing.