Yet another tuning question

[mscampbell75]

My setup:
Right handed
28" draw
53# long bow
2016 @ 28 3/4"   w/ 125 upfront for a total of 477grns


I thought things were going good until i got to broad head tuning      Bareshafted w/ fp and was what I thought pretty groups.  I did have to change my nock point up a little.  With shats if was hitting just to left of (2 or 3") with some and some dead on compared to fletch.  I have always questions my form, thinking that I can always improve on that to tightn groups up.  

Anyway, move on to broad heads(125grn snuffers), after what I thought were ok bareshaft groups.  It did show a that I still need to move nock point up alittle.  Got that taken care of, BUT it also showed a stiff indication(hitting 5"-6" to left)    

I ordered the fp test kit from 3 rivers and commenced to bareshaft again with the different point weights.  Found out that I was definitly over spinned w/ the 125's upfront.  It really likes the 175s and the 200s.  I have recently read that you guys like a little weak bareshaft indication b/c of fletch.  Wish I had known that earlier.  

My groups have gotten dead on out to 25 yrds. Maybe it wasnt as much me as I thought it was.  My bow/arrow/point wt combo was never prperly tuned.   My bow is quieter.  And the heavier wt upfront hits like a freakn runaway frieght train.

OK with that said, here is my question.  To be able to keep my 125 screw in snuffers, and my same arrows.  What can I do to bump the wieght up.  I have seen the brass inserts @ 3 rivers.  Has anyone used these w/ good results?  Any other options.
 
100grns inserts+125 snuffers= 225 up front and a 557 total arrow wt.

That should be real close to the:

20 grn inserts(current installed)+200grn test point= 220grns up front and a 552 grns arrow wt total.

Is this a good whitetail hunting weight?

[joebuck]

Becareful....adding the weight you want inside will not have the dramatic effect as adding the same weight to the point..my suggestion would be buy the steel broadhead adapters  for the snuffers. That should add weight to the point( outside the insert), just like you did when you changed your field point weight from 125-200...it was an OUTSIDE change.........adding weight behind the arrow point insert will not affect the current spine.  Just makes an overall heavier arrow

[GMMAT]

Brass inserts CAN make your arrows react stiff, still.  The portion of the insert that goes inside the shaft won't allow that portion of the shaft to flex.  I have a doz. I can't currently use to prove it.

What you may have to do is simply go to a heavier BH.  That would be my suggestion.

[Hattrick]

I WAS TOLD DON`T BARE SHAFT BROADHEADS, JUST WITH FEILD POINTS. THE BROADHEADS SHOULD FLY RIGHT AFTER THEY ARE FLETCH

[xtrema312]

My guess is you had some edge of shelf contact causing your arrow to hit and bounce a hair weak getting the stiffer shaft to fly ok. You found your nock was low so when you raised it the contact was eliminated and the shaft went true spine flight,  stiff.  Been there........

You can use the brass inserts.  I would personally do it if they fit your shaft.  I use them all the time with carbons.  I assume you have screw in heads that are fixed and not screw in adapters, and you don't want to get new ones.  The 100 gr. is longer than a standard insert so I find it will stiffen the shaft by reducing its flex length by about the difference in insert length.  I usually figure about 1/4", and it works out for carbon, but carbons are a lot more length sensitive than aluminum so maybe you will not even see much difference.  The insert will weaken your spine just like the point weight other than that little less effective shaft length.  If you are right on now you could end up a hair stiff.  I have read that a little weak is best, but I have read a little stiff is best.  I have a bow tuned a little stiff and it shoot great BH's.  I have one a little weak and it shoots BH's great also.  So far I can't tell if one is better than the other.  I do know that with feather on, they both shoot bullet holes in paper at 5' so I think that is about as good as it gets for tune.

You can always make up a few hunting arrows just a little longer to work it out.  If you can find a way to add nock end weight you can get the arrow a little weaker also if you end up stiff.  Maybe you can make some little spacer collars to space the brass insert out a little.

High FOC and that weight will smoke white tails so I would not worry about the arrow at all for hunting.

[mscampbell75]

Hattrick, I only shoot BH w/ fletch.  I have heard that its not a good idea, as the could end up anywhere.

xtrema,  i was getting some rug wear until i moved my nock up.  So that makes sense about showing my true spine.

I do have the fixed screw in.  That would be a simple fix if I had the adapters. Just move up in weight.  I was trying to use the current ones and not buy new ones.

But, it sounds like that may be my best and most effective option.

Thanks for you replies.  I didnt think about putting that extra weight behind the BH would make the shaft stiff by takeing away flex length of the shaft.

[jbuck9]

Go with the steel BH adapters, I do this rather then adding weight up into the shaft, much better results. good luck and good sooting.

[R H Clark]

Nothing wrong IMHO with 477 grns. I would not sacrifice a good shooting arrow to bump up a few grains.If you want to shoot heavier for some other reason like making the bow behave better fine but don't do it because you think you need the extra weight to penetrate a deer.

[champ38]

As mentioned above, stay away from the brass inserts if possible, add wt via tip inserts...adding the brass will complicate things.

[mscampbell75]

jbuck,
Is there an adapter that i can put on with my 125gn snuffers?,  I have the fixed screw in type, not the glue on type.  The only adapters I've seen is the ones for the glue on type.  Give me a link if there is one.

R H,
The reason I'm adding weight is because of tuning issues w/ my arrows.  As I said in my 1st post, with the field point test kit, I got best bareshaft groups w/ 175 and showed alittle weak w/ the 200s.  Not really going after heavy, just what I get the best groups with.  The reason, I bareshafted again was b/c of broadheads not grouping well.

As said, my best bet may be to just buy some heavier BHs.

Thanks guys.

[Pullonmylimb]

If im not mistaken I beleive the screw in version you have is simply the glue on version, glued onto a tpaered aluminum adapter.  You could probably heat and remove, the aluminum and replace it with steel thereby bumping up your weight.

However, whenever you heat metal you change its temper.  You would want to heat as minimally as possible and i beleive quench immediately after.  Someone please correct me if im wrong.  I think if you cool the head slowly you will have a softer head.  With steel there is always the balance between toughness and ductility.  The samurai knew this well and used both properties in balance to create one of the worlds simplest and deadliest weapons.....but i digress.

Ultimately I think you can easily get away with heating the heads until you can yank em off the adapter they came with.  Side note: Dont heat them in the shaft if you can avoid it.  Clamp them in a vise and pull the sharpy part off with pliers.

[Ragnarok Forge]

Heat the  insert and pull it out as soon as it is hot enough to get the glue to let go.  cool the head in water.  The to really change the temper of the steel you will have to see a color change in the metal. Which will make the metal softer so it won't hold an edge

[R H Clark]

Sorry,my mistake on weight.If you don't want to use the brass inserts,you can use the threaded GT aluminum bushing that accepts small brass weights on the inside of the shaft

[jbuck9]

Are you sure that your snuffer is a solid unit, I know that the new woodsman is, I use too shoot snuffer on and off , but I never had any that you
coudint remove the insert, If you have a snuffer that is all in one and not removable, then you would have too go too the brass adapters that screw into the back of your insert.
If that is the case, for me I would buy a 200 0r 225 grain head , 0r get the steel insert adapters with the glue on snuffers.
check our 3 rivers, hope this helps you out.

[mscampbell75]

jbuck
I will double check tommorrow on the snuffers, but I'm pretty sure they are the ones that are fixed screw ins.  They came packaged with threads that seem to be all one piece..  I didnt have to get adapters.  I'm new to suffers so I very well could be mistaken.  I will examine them closely.

RH,
No worries.  But as for the brass inserts, some said that it could actually stiffn the arrows up somewhat, due to taking some of the flex out of the shaft itself by putting the weight inside and not out front.

Guys thanks again, 3rivers has been loving me for the past few weeks, whats another order for some heavier heads going to matter. I might just find something else that I cant live with out. Just cant tell the wife.  

[BWD]

It has been my experience that adding weight down the shaft does weaken the shaft without causing problems. Adding weight outside the shaft does have a different effect, but I don't understand how adding brass weights complicate things.

[Doug in MN]

If you are shooting a 28.75 inch arrow with 125 out front out of a 53# AT 28 INCH you are way over spined with that arrow.

Try a 2016 at 29.5" with 167 out front (125 grain witha a long 42 grain insert)

Take a look at Stu Millers spine calculator it works very well.

My best to you. D

[joebuck]

MsCampbell....all this thrown at you can get confusing can't it....let back up to the Snuffer you bought.."screw in"? that is probably a glue in that they glued an aluminun adapter in...heat it and remove the adapter...3Rivers sells Steel adapters in 75,100 and 125 grain..you can buy the 75 grain adapter and you now have a 200grain Snuffer......heres a trick also i used that might help your flight too..alighn your broadhead exactly like your three fletch..it cut down dramactically on the "roll" sometimes they have when not propered tuned..Snuffer is a great head..good luck hunting

[BWD]

Braveheart also sells inserts and ship very fast. When I removed the glued in insert from some 125 gr. snuffers, the head weighted 100 grs. Not aware of a one piece snuffer.

[mscampbell75]

Thanks guys, I will check that out.  If thats the case that should be a simple fix.

What type of glue do I need to use when I get my adapters?