QuoteOriginally posted by Bjorn:
Thanks Margly and Buejager! Interesting and well done.

Thanks Bjorn!
It was indeed interesting!

Margly

I've known what very heavy GPP arrows shot from low poundage trad bows, when coupled with very sharp 2 blade broadheads from a 20 yards or less broadside shot through both lungs, can do ...... for the last 46 years. This is the reason why I continue to shoot low poundage bows when bowhunting whitetail deer, mule deer, small feral hogs (I like tender wild pork) and javelina.

Quoteenough of this scapula talk. That is not what bowhunting is about. Forget whatyou might be able to do - animals move - and 38# is NOT enough for big game hunting - and I do not care if there are people who can't pull a hunting weight bow - if I live long enough it will happen to me. The answer is YES if someone cannot handle a heavier bow then they should not hunt big game with a bow. Get over it and get a real bow if you want to hunt big game. Playing around with a 38# bow on red deer will hurt our cause. And even if a 38# bow does penetrate a scapula it does not qualify that bow as efficient big game archery tackle.  

I disagree with this, if it's legal in the state a person should be able to use what they can pull. I myself will not give up bowhunting as long as I can pull the legal weight even if it means dropping back to our states legal weight of over 35#. And I'll still kill more deer than a lot of the poseurs will  

BTW the shot in the clip with my 38# longbow was a distance of ca 17 yards

Margly

and the clip with me shooting the Blacjk Douglas was at 20 yards...

Hey gang lets keep my comments in context. Never implied anyone should "give up bowhunting" - I am specifically talking about "big game" - which red deer certainly are. the info presented is interesting - and encouraging when we see what a well balanced arrow can do. I do not consider most whitetails big game - at least not in the true sense - say under 100# light bows no problem - blackbuck cool - 70# hogs cool. When you get into 250# bucks, 170# hogs , 400# bears there needs to be a seriousness to our approach - and the old "if its legal" is lame and tired. Not good enough for serious big game hunting and I stand by my statements originally stated. As far as numbers - we got em - and it is how we learned all this. But hey way back my daughter killed a hog with a 32# longbow bow so I help folks hunt with light tackle - but not for a red deer.
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Looks like you could have shot it with a metal blunt and broke through it...
Tests like that are neat and fun but dont really prove anything to real world hunting situations if you ask me.

Nice job guys.  Within a reasonable range that #38 bow can kill large animals, if the arrow is sharp and well placed.  

In my state, the minimum legal draw weight is #40.  My younger son has a #40 bow that I like to shoot, as I can shoot it all day and be very accurate.  I admit I have no experience on "bigger" animals, but I feel confident that it could take any white tail around here.

personally imho, particularly if you can hold more weight, it's not at all smart to stickbow hunt big game with "weenie weight stickbows", even if legal.  just increases the chances for error ... i don't see the point at all.

ps - definitely what cory said.

for all the guys that say 38 is to low.how did the cavemen down animals? they were small little guys and no way could they chuck a speer very hard.the native american indians bows couldnt have been very heavy and they killed everything out there.it just makes sense that with todays technology and b-head sharpness that it would penetrate..cant argue the video thats for sure ...well done guys.      

papa, this ain't the stone age or the wild west.  

use the right weapon for the game being hunted.  

big deer like reds and 38# stickbows don't make sense and invite nothing but trouble.

Here's a video of a guy across the pond shooting a Silerfalme on a FMJ thru a shoulder blade with 38# @ 31" longbow.

http://homepage.mac.com/nlediard/Sites/38.mov

Here is a Nanook bh shot from a 42# Border Black Douglas thru a leg bone.

http://homepage.mac.com/nlediard/Sites/42.mov
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What I find interesting here is the weight thing... This weeny weight stick bow     is spitting out arrows of the same weight at the same speed as my 50 pound black widow... Giving me 0.45 slug in momentum.... Why are we hung up on bow weight? Should not the speed/weight of the arrow be a better judge of performance?
Now I am not saying that I am going to through all my heavy bows and/or limbs out and just shoot light bows, but this was an experiment just to see what would happen if an arrow shot from a lightish bow would do when it hit bone....
Good to read everyones points of view on this subject.
 

not ever saying big game can't be killed with light bows, just saying that both the skill and luck factors are highly escalated in that kinda situation.  not smart, imho.

Didnt the Indians use 30ib bow to kill Buffalo ??

bow holding weight implies both arrow speed and trajectory.  

a 40# stickbow uses a 400gr arrow for 10gpp.  increase that arrow weight to 600gr and yer lobbing that arrow - you need to get real close to the game.  

none of this lightweight bow stuff makes any rational sense if you can handle heavier holding weights.

QuoteOriginally posted by Bob Macioch:
Didnt the Indians use 30ib bow to kill Buffalo ??

no no no no NO - we're NOT going there!  

this thread is coming to an abrupt end ........

Rob
I dont understand your and Tradgang's view on light poundage bows......most states have limits so if it legal why should you and Tradgang take such a harsh stance??????

Why don't we say you need an arrow weighing x... And traveling at x... FPS  and forget this bow# crap! So many factors and all bows arn't born equal!

QuoteOriginally posted by Bob Macioch:
Rob
I dont understand your and Tradgang's view on light poundage bows......most states have limits so if it legal why should you and Tradgang take such a harsh stance??????

most states don't know squat about trad bowhunting and have less than realistic stickbow weight rules that are probably not effectively enforced.

but more importantly, hunt with as much bow holding weight as you can consistently/accurately control

threads like this can easily become a mantra for folks to hunt the wrong game with the wrong stickbow holding weight, and does a disservice to newbies.