At what point in feet per second, if it were possible via new, as yet unknown manufacturing techniques and materials, to build a traditional styled bow (be it long, recurve, hybrid, etc.) that could cast a 600 grain arrow as fast as you wanted, would it become unethical to use that bow?

In other words, when does the term "traditional archery" become invalidated by technology... even if the bow looks "traditional"?

IMHO I feel"Traditional Archery" is not using mechanical devices and sights,expanding heads,and wheels.But more of a marriage of the mind and body with the bow and arrow to achieve a spiritual encounter with nature and the essence of a hunt.

Why would it be unethical if it were a traditional bow?  i never knew we had a speed limit, but i never really cared how fast the bow i shot was unless #1...i could catch the arrow before it hit the target..or #2, it wasn't powerful enough to kill what i am hunting, and that has more to do with momentum and not speed.    
That being said, you design a traditional bow, that will shoot a 600grain arrow at my every day poundage (48 to 50lbs) that can be shot with control and consistency, that will shoot say 250 fps, i will be happy for you to send me a prototype to test for you!   :D   i might even buy one!

Off season.  :rolleyes:

Speed is the same hype they use to sell wheelbows,tradition I think is more about the things of the past that make bowhunting great,as far as speed is concerned Jack Howard made about the fastest recurve Ive ever owned,most stable as well,sure wish I still owned it but 30 years is along time to hang onto a bow,always miss the best ones too late after youve sold them.

I don't see anything "unethical" about legally shooting a deer with a 7mm. I doubt any bow will be faster than that.

Electricity does NOT *fit* with traditional archery....

Shoot straight, Shinken

I'm glad that bowyers have developed to the point that I can get the same perfomance out of a 50# Carbon R/D longbow vs a 150# English Yew longbow. Nothing wrong with that and it's still traditional as far as I'm concerned                

What Jason said.

QuoteOriginally posted by pdk25:
Off season.   :rolleyes:  

There is Traditional archery, then there is Primitive archery. I shoot traditional. Maybe someday what I'm doing will be considered Semi-primitive. I am and will be shooting a semi-modern traditional styled bow. (not a cut out aluminum riser, nothing wrong with em in my book by the way)
The modern definition will change daily. Just like I shoot an "OLD" 1958 bear that was the newest and greatest at that time (or one of em).
Someday someone will be shooting a 50 year old Shrew that "Only" shoots 200fps instead of the newest and greatest shooting 300fps.
It might be naive to say this but, I think bows of traditional design are not going to get too awful much faster do to limitations of materials for quite a while .
It's all relative to the times.

I think there are 2 very different terms being used to describe a bow or style of hunting on this thread.

Traditional= see above for my opinion.(for what it's worth)

Ethical= clean kill however it's done

Legal=legal cause I bet it's going to come up

An unethical choice would be one that wouldn't allow for a clean kill.

I'm not sure I understand the point of your question.  There's nothing wrong with someone using their intelligence and ingenuity to design something that is more efficient. And that's really what we're talking about.  You won't be finding anything that is more effective, though. You can get a complete pass through on a deer with a 40lb selfbow.

So, if someone designs a 30# bow that shoots as hard as a 60# bow, is that good or bad?  Good, I'd say.  As long as someone doesn't strap sight on it, they'll still have to utilize the basic skills it takes to shoot a selfbow.  

I don't think that would be possible, though.  In physics, there are limitations.

I like to hunt with bows where I hold all the weight. Call it what you like. I also like to hunt with the most efficient bows I can so that I know that I am doing all of my part to get a clean kill. I practice diligently and stay within my self imposed limits. I don't need a title for it beyond bowhunting, the rest comes down to personal choices. Do what fits within your ethos and is legal and we can get along fine.    

Trad, primitive, Hi-tech,Osage limbs, carbon core, bamboo backed, fiberglass,B-50, D-97,450 plus. If your out there shooting 3-D's, hunting, stump'n and have'n fun,"THAT'S WHAT MATTERS",just have fun and do the best you feel you can.If you feel your set-up isn't up to par then change it. If your happy slinging an arrow at blistering 147 fps have at it.....just enjoy the thing!  

I don't think that technology kills tradition. I feel the problem lies in why we often use technology; to make things easier, spend less time and be less involved in developing skills. We can see this in trad archery. When the big trad kick hit a little over 20 years ago everyone was after wood shafts and many were learning to build arrows. Then we bought arrows that were built, then we realized we could go to carbon and that was easier, etc. etc. I would recommend we don't look at technology but look at why we are using it.

interesting question, it is kinda like synthetic flintlock muzzle loaders designed for PA's traditional muzzle loader season!?

I bet some old geezers were sitting around a campfire talking about this very topic before the introduction of fiberglass, or compound bows?  "What's next" is always something that crosses my mind, and it is always a concern.  We went from bows, to rifles, to faster bows, and even further to more accurate faster rifles.  I am like all of you guys and I stride to make as clean of a kill as I possibly can, but really where do we draw the line when it comes to "fair".  When does technology create a scenario when hunting is no longer fair?  

Good mind food Konrad!

QuoteOriginally posted by ron w:
Trad, primitive, Hi-tech,Osage limbs, carbon core, bamboo backed, fiberglass,B-50, D-97,450 plus. If your out there shooting 3-D's, hunting, stump'n and have'n fun,"THAT'S WHAT MATTERS",just have fun and do the best you feel you can.If you feel your set-up isn't up to par then change it. If your happy slinging an arrow at blistering 147 fps have at it.....just enjoy the thing!      

I couldn't agree more! It's just an academic (did I spell that right?) question.

Konrad....I wasn't trying to say anything against your post or thoughts. I just think we all tend to think to much and not focus on the enjoyment of watching an arrow in flight!!!  

It always amuses me to see someone try to define "Trad" on the Internet.
Look back in history and we have always been obsessed with speed,(Or as they use to call it before $99.00 chronographs... "Cast")
Read any of the old books from the 1930's and earlier and they were always in quest of the best.. Nothing has changed.
If your bow doesn't have wheels or string holding devises... Its Trad.
Relax and enjoy the ride.