What is stupid is that some people here think we are trying to change elknut's choice of arrow weights when all responses are to his suppositions about arrow performance.  The thread isn't even about him.  But one is for sure...it is pointless.

My vote goes to the 505 gn...that in itself is a heavy arrow and is more than enough IMO. I prefer a faster and flatter shooting arrow when hunting big game...9-10 gpp of bow wt seems to give me excellent penetration with sufficient speed. Some may prefer the arc...I prefer to see only a ball of feathers streaking to my target. Again this is just MO.

"The 505 grainer all the way. For those possible 30yd shots you will eliminate a minimum 20" of drop between the 2 arrows mentioned. 500 aprox grn arrows is all we shoot in our elkcamp! 3 of us have taken 8 bulls in the last 3 years with 500grn setups! Razor sharp heads are way more important than trying to decide on arrow choice there! Good Luck!"--------------


Steve, note my original post above. I was not questioning anyones setup. I merely stated my thoughts & the reason why I'd choose the 505grn arrow, period. Others chimed in later questioning a 500grns ability, I now in turn post photos to prove my point on the effectiveness of a 500grn arrow setup. Again, use what works for you but don't downplay it's effectiveness on ones elk hunt! For instance, they are far from tossing rubber bands at elk! Have a great day!

 ElkNut1

http://shrewbows.com/carbon_arrows.html

Good article George. thanks for sharing

George, thanks, I too appreciate real life experiences as well.

 Elkbreath, I'd share a campfire with you anytime! Actually it would be a privilege! Thanks!

 ElkNut1

Again I ask this question.....

If all the "givens" are taken care of...sharp head, well tuned arrow, proficient practice with your weapon, etc. what is a reason to NOT use a sayyyy....650+ grain arrow for elk? What does a a hunter loose by shooting the heavier arrow?....

Because, simply put, research has shown (and I know a lot of you guys just love it when more great arrow lethality research is mentioned.. wonder why?) with the above conditions in place, the work and efficiency of a heavier arrow hitting an animal is better than that of the lighter arrow.

Richie - because I choose the setup that FOR ME will give ME the best chance of making the shot that will blow thru and put the animal down quickly. For me that is a setup shooting about 190 fps - and I'll never shoot enough draw wght to get that from an Ashby arrow.

Please note - I am SteveB - not Steve B.

Richie, good question! For me & I speak for myself. It's about a reasonable amount of speed & trajectory, they go hand in hand. But at the same time I don't want to sacrifice penetration so I stay with a happy medium. Meaning, I could go with 400grns & yes that would be quicker but I'd sacrifice penetration in all tests I've done & I'm not willing to accept that on my elk hunts, on deer hunts you could negotiate your arrow weight some. The other end of the spectrum is too heavy for my 55# longbow. 9-10grn per lb is efficient & deadly for me.

 I want this type of speed/setup to put the odds in my favor a bit, you never know when that elk may move or jump/bolt or do the infamous dip at the shot, when this happens & it doesn't always happen but I want my arrow there as quick as possible so my good shot doesn't turn into a bad shot because of a slower setup. The difference between a 500grn arrow & a 650grn+ is an easy 20fps & at times more. This means in a 1/4 second the slower arrow is still 5' behind the 500grn arrow at impact, as I say it can be a heart breaker when a bad shot does occur. It's bad enough to keep ones composure during a high energy close elk encounter, no need to add something else into the equation.

 Too, I will take a 35yd shot at an elk if everything is right, both speed & less trajectory certainly can come into play here, it's not for everyone & I understand that but I'm prepared for it. My longest shot at a bull & my 1st one (grin) with my longbow was 26yds, he jumped & bolted  upon release I believe that quicker arrow did make a difference there but it's difficult to prove! The arrow sank to the feathers on him as he was quartered away & the magnus SnufferSS 3-bladed head lodged into the off shoulder solid as rock, I had tons of penetration with a 490grn 2016 arrow. So 500grns for myself is the best of both worlds, it hasn't let me down yet! Here's the 26yd bull.

 ElkNut1

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Thanks...

That is pretty much the same reason that I shoot 760-770 grain arrows at elk instead of the 900-1000 grain arrows at whitetails in Alabama.  The only reason I use the big arrows for whitetails is for bow quietness at 12-15 yards.  Although I like heavy arrows, I drop back to the lighter 760's  for elk so I can have a flatter (not flat) shot out to 30 yards and decrease my margin of error as SteveB mentioned before...and I'm not near AS worried about the bow noise. Although it is very quiet for elk hunting.  But for me pulling my 69 lb Black Widow, any arrow under 650 grains is too loud and not near as smooth to shoot.

BTW..All the information all of you offer is very much appreciated.

Richie

dangit 'nut, i gotta buy a bunch more arrows!

actually your posts here coupled with stouts link helped me make a decision.  I've been mullin over using a snuffer this year over the 300 gr grizz.  You've made up my mind.  Shootin 72#'s I've decided I might as well shoot the lighter 255gr massive 3 blade...  got enough punch I think to get two BIG holes rather than two skinny ones, and my AD hammerheads shoot both clean.  I'll put one thru a muley first to test em out.  

shalom!  and good discussion.

Elknut.."The difference between a 500grn arrow & a 650grn+ is an easy 20fps & at times more. This means in a 1/4 second the slower arrow is still 5' behind the 500grn arrow at impact, as I say it can be a heart breaker when a bad shot does occur."

Is this actually true?... When you include the down range momentum, the lighter arrow is going to slow down quicker than the heavier arrow.  I wonder at which distance does the fps of each arrow get really close to being the same.

It is probably not significant in your example with 500 and 650 gr. arrows but I think at some point it may be important to know.

Elkbreath, LOL!!! Dude, you're good enough to kill elk with a baseball bat! (grin) Whatever arrow you choose will be just fine!! By the way I had no idea you shot 72#, what a stud!

 Richie, I'm no scientists by any stretch, just an elk hunter. But I've shot enough combination's of various wt arrows over the years out of just about everything to say that a 500grn arrow shot out of a 50#-60# bow & a 650grn+ arrow shot out of the same bow, both arrows being satisfactory tuned to the bow that the 650+ arrow has no chance of catching up with that 500grn one. I'm talking out to 50 yds anyway as I don't practice a whole lot passed that except for occasional stump shooting at unknown distances.

 Heavy arrows have their pros but speed isn't one of them! (grin) They do have good down-range penetration however, once they get there! (grin)

 ElkNut1

Elk ribs are pretty small in diameter for the size of the animal and are easily broken with a lighter bow. They also have a kill area approximately twice the size of a deer. A hit in the ribs is going to most likely result in a short recovery.

But, like you all have read many times on here 'use the heaviest bow you can shoot accurately". I think this is true with elk or whatever you are hunting. Also use the heaviest arrow you are accurate with. Accuracy being the key word here.

Elknut....How fast is your 500 grain arrow from your 55 lb. bow?

I killed the elk in my Avitar with a 605 grain carbon arrow and a two blade Zwickey from a 58# Black Widow recurve. My draw length is only about 26.5 inches but I got a complete pass through. I doubt my speed was much over 165 FPS.

Elknut I'm with you also 450-550 grainers for me noo problems from hogs to elk.  I don't think anyone on this post is saying a 500 grain arrow with out penetrate a 700 grain one.  The 500 grainer will do what is needed though, just at a little higher speed.

FWIW...

I have taken 4 elk with a WW or smaller Snuffer, 55 lbs, dacron string, about 185FPS and a 550 gn arrow.

Three pass-thrus and one lodged on the off side shoulder.

It seems a reasonable combination of all the factors one should consider when selecting their tackle.

Your mileage may vary.

Bob

Richie, not sure as I've never had my longbow chronographed! I would estimate in the low 190's though.

 ElkNut1

If your broadhead is sharp and you make a good shot he is dead.Nobodys elk is more dead then another mans dead elk.reguardless of the set up.It's a personel deal.Thats why they make diffrent equipment.Be sensible and shoot what you like.