Hi gang, I'm due for a new bunch of shafts and I'm trying to go a bit cheap this time.

I need a bit of advice from any ICS shooters...

First, I like front-loading and I want to throw some of 3river's 100-grain brass inserts in there. Are the ICS shafts the regular 5/16" (same as CE heritage)? If not, what size inserts do I need?

Second, would the corresponding carbon collars fit? I noticed that the trad-only shafts (that the collars are for) come in the same sizes as the ICS. I don't know how well that correlates to outer diameter   :confused:  

And the toughest for last: What size do I need? I'm still shooting my bear montana longbow which is probably around 56#@30" (but not a speed machine). The arrows will be cut to 31" and preferably have 225 grains up front. Do I need 400 or 500?

Thanks guys!
           

-Dave

They are the same as Gold Tip's,CE Heritage,Blackhawk Vapor's and Carbonwood's and any carbon with a .246 ID.I believe CE Heritage inside diameter is .244,they all use the 5/16" componets.

What poundage of bow are you shooting? I never just cut a carbon without shooting them first at full length.My buddy has a longbow that is around 56#@30 and he shoots Beman ICS 400 with 100 gr. insert and 125 gr. head at full length which I think was 32".If you want to load up the front I would pick 400's and start at full length and see how they fly for you before you cut to 31".Carbons don't come in as many different spines as wood or aluminum so I don't worry about the finish length.Getting one to the length you want can be hit or miss but I always start full length and trim and tune from there.

The bow is rated 50#@28, so I'm just guessing that its around 56#@30"

One caveat... I don't have a high-speed saw, which is why I usually have to get my shafts cut upon ordering, and then the point weight is hit or miss. But to make a given length work I can go as low as 125gr, or as high as...err...over 300gr without too much hassle.

If I'm on the border between the two I can go low as 30" without too much of a problem.

Now, I only shoot recurves and have little experience on how much the lack of center shot impacts the spine, but I think the 400s will work.  My guess is you might need 200-300 on the front at 31, but definitely start with full lenght shafts to stay around 225.  

If it helps, here is what works for my recurves. I shoot the 400 ics hunters cut to 30" with 250 grains up front out of a 54#@28 Morrison Cheyenne.  The same arrows tuned nicely out of a 57#@28 Silvertip but with 275 grains up front.  I draw a touch over 28".  The Silvertip also shoots the 340 ICS shaft cut to 31" with 300 grains up front.

5/16 inserts fit the ICS shafts.

my rig of choice ...

beman ics venture/bowhunter (same shaft, different marketing names) is my main shaft of choice, in the weakest 500 spine, 29.25" from the nock groove to the back of the brass insert.  

350 grains up front - 100 grain brass insert, 125 grain steel adapter, 125 grain point (woodsman or snuffer glue-on broadhead, 11/32" glue-on judo for roving), 250 grain screw-in field point (for targets).

vario chopped lo-pro bananna four fletch, 75x105.

all up weight is 595 grains, with an foc of 29%.

62" mohawk t/d longbow, 55# @ 29", 8 strand dyneema'02 endless string.

ya gotta test out different shafts and arrow builds, find one that works for you (not me), stick with it 'forever'.  life is good.   :cool:  

 

I shoot ICS Hunter 340's, 100 gr. brass insert, 250 grain point for a total of 350 gr. up front. I leave the shafts full length as I draw 32". At that draw the bow I shoot is about 60#, B-50 string, Cut to center shelf.

Thanks guys! I think I'm headed in the right direction.

Just a few more things for reference, I have a few straggler CE 250's with 225gr in the front and they shoot a bit stiff.

I also always do 4-fletch with 5" feathers which seems to stiffen the arrows up noticeably more than than a more conservative fletch style.

Thanks for all the help! It seems like I'm between a 400 and a 500 like I though. I'm a big squirrel hunter so I might just pick up the 500's. If they are too soft then I figure most of them will become flu-flu's anyhoo!