Quote from: Terry Green on November 21, 2025, 11:01:10 AMOnski, it sounds like you haven't tried many bows at sixty inches. You're missing the whole design revelation. The late Ron KaClaur would debunk you in two seconds. I also debunk you. You have either shot and poorly designed bows at sixty inches, or you haven't tried enough bows, while the other.

I'm glad you admit you have found one.But there are many others that would fit.You also. Old wives' tales are just that, wives tales, don't believe all of them.

I admittedly do not keep up with bow designs.  I'd like to hear more on the design revelation and some idea of what to look for.  I'd love to shoot shorter bows than I'm currently shooting but I've always been told it was a bad idea and I've just stick with it.

Quote from: TaterHill Archer on November 28, 2025, 11:32:15 AM

Quote from: Terry Green on November 21, 2025, 11:01:10 AMOnski, it sounds like you haven't tried many bows at sixty inches. You're missing the whole design revelation. The late Ron KaClaur would debunk you in two seconds. I also debunk you. You have either shot and poorly designed bows at sixty inches, or you haven't tried enough bows, while the other.

I'm glad you admit you have found one.But there are many others that would fit.You also. Old wives' tales are just that, wives tales, don't believe all of them.

I admittedly do not keep up with bow designs.  I'd like to hear more on the design revelation and some idea of what to look for.  I'd love to shoot shorter bows than I'm currently shooting but I've always been told it was a bad idea and I've just stick with it.

Don't let other people's opinions keep you from discovering the amazing innovations in bow design. If you're at all interested in shooting shorter bows, do yourself a favor and research bows like the Javaman Elkheart, Big Jim's Thunderchild, Toelke Pika, Shrew Classic Hunter, and the Centaur Longbow. All of these bows come in various lengths to accommodate longer than average draw lengths, while still qualifying as short bows. They are unequaled in hunting situations, and don't let anyone tell you that they aren't as accurate as longer bows ... it's simply not true.

I have spent the afternoon reading on reflex/deflex designs.  I don't really know if my 13" VPA with longbow limbs is R/D  or not.  I am intrigued by the idea of going to shorter bows.  I've been shooting a fixed crawl and it wasn't good on the 58" ILF setup, noise wise.  but I could sacrifice a shorter point on distance to get it quieter.  I guess I need to try one of these mows mentioned and see if I can shoot one.  Which means, I'll probably get one and become addicted to it.

Quote from: TaterHill Archer on November 28, 2025, 04:57:27 PMI have spent the afternoon reading on reflex/deflex designs.  I don't really know if my 13" VPA with longbow limbs is R/D  or not.  I am intrigued by the idea of going to shorter bows.  I've been shooting a fixed crawl and it wasn't good on the 58" ILF setup, noise wise.  but I could sacrifice a shorter point on distance to get it quieter.  I guess I need to try one of these mows mentioned and see if I can shoot one.  Which means, I'll probably get one and become addicted to it.

At the risk of sounding melodramatic, my choice in traditional bows changed irrevocably when I shot my first Javaman Elkheart. Prior to that I was shooting longbows from 64 to 68" long. Those are all gone now except for the 64" Toelke Whip, and replaced by bows from 52 to 58". I have seen the light.

As designs have improved,  the short bow old wives tale becomes more and more just that.  It's all in the design of the bow, riser to limb and how the limbs are pre stressed and how they bend when  they are loading up.  If your tips are coming back at you like crazy when you inch towards full draw,  that steep finger pinch angle is going to rear it's ugly head.....something people have in the past complained about with short bows (finger pinch) Our bowyers who know how to build them have figured out how to make the shorter limbs bend in a way that keeps the string angle at full draw more like the string angle on the longer bows.

Eric, every thing you said makes sense. I have somewhat larger hands, described by my son as sausage-like fingers. I can honestly say finger pinch never has been a concern for me either.
 I have owned two or three different Shrews, the best being a 56" Classic Hunter, but I have had a couple shorter also. No complaints about them.

As I stated above, I have gone down the ASL rabbit trail and am not likely to ever go back. I just plain enjoy it more. For me transitioning to short bows twenty or thirty years ago was easier than learning to shoot Hill style. It's supposed to be fun, so whatever a guy enjoys - go for it!