When did "Traditional" become "Traditional"?

upatree · March 09, 2008, 09:53:00 PM

I was thinking about this today. When did we start calling original archery, and I mean what we consider "traditional", traditional archery? Why did compound bows take the title of archery and the long bows and recurves etc... had to rename themselves traditional? Just curious and lets try to stick to the topic here and not let this get into a bashing war. Thanks for everyone's input.

Upatree :cool:

Whip · March 09, 2008, 10:06:00 PM

I just think it's a way of describing something that has evolved over time to the point the newer versions are more popular. Very similar to the way ethnic clothing, meals, etc. are called "traditional dress" or "traditional dishes".
Let's face it, compounds are far more common in todays world, and longbows and recurves are by far the exception in most places.
Personally, I kind of like the term. It is a way of letting people know what I use is different from what they would probably assume if I just said "I shoot bows".

horatio1226 · March 09, 2008, 10:08:00 PM

oh boy, here we go again!

March 09, 2008, 10:12:00 PM

I "think" you're on the right track. Folks started using the term to segregate themselves from compound shooters, and perhaps vice versa. I also "think" it was used more to describe a method rather than equipment. That is to say... the barebow or stickbow rather than the NEW fad of the compound.

One thing I do know for sure. There are as many different definitions of the term "traditional" as there are folks who use it. I've asked the question a 101 times on various boards and have yet to anyone define it for me.

As for me, I prefer to shoot recurves and longbows on occasion. jawje liberated me a long time ago.

upatree · March 09, 2008, 10:15:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by horatio1226:
oh boy, here we go again!

I'm sorry if I am beating a dead horse here. I tried to do a search but I didn't get an answer that I wanted. Just looking for some input as to when the change took place.
Please feel free to add something constructive to the conversation.

I would like to learn something that I did not know prior. :confused:
Thanks again.

gwhunter · March 09, 2008, 10:22:00 PM

Reminds me of Dr. Seuss "The Sneetches". Good book. Every hunter should read it.
I am a traditional hunter. Or at least most of the time. I also bowhunt, gunhunt, and fish without a fly-rod.
But when I daydream of hunting, it is with a bow that I made with my own two hands.

My guess is in 1967, when the compound was invented.

Ron LaClair · March 09, 2008, 10:36:00 PM

As I recall, I saw my first compound around 1970. I shot field archery in the late 50's and all through the 60's. When the compound came out it caught on quite quickly so by the mid 70's just about everyone switched over to wheels....I never did.

DesertDude · March 09, 2008, 10:38:00 PM

Let me just say this..Read the defination of the word Tradition/al.... I have always liked the words "Classic Archery" ..........Just me.

Orion · March 09, 2008, 11:04:00 PM

What Ron said. Though the compound was patented about 50 years ago, didn't become popular until the 70s. In my neck of the woods, it wasn't so much folks who stuck with longbows and recurves calling themselves traditional to distinguish themselves from compound shooters as it was a term that compound shooters applied to us because they didn't know what else to cal us. Probably a little of each. Regardless, as applied to archery, the term didn't come into play until the mid-late 70s as Ron said.

Roadkill · March 09, 2008, 11:25:00 PM

who had the first compound patent? We have two Allen's in our shop and it looks as if the patent date on them is 1969. Was there a patent before Allen's? I recall watching a guy shoot a small buck with an Allen in 1970 -the first one I saw. I hunted the 1966 to 1969 seasons in WI-hard core bow hunters those boys! There were many archery shops in Madison and none had wheels in them.

Orion · March 09, 2008, 11:37:00 PM

Wickipedia says Allen patented the compound in 1967. Other sources say 1969. It caught on pretty fast though, and was in pretty widespred use by the late 70s. Oops. I stand corrected. I said it was invented about 50 years ago. Guess it was about 40 years ago.

laddy · March 09, 2008, 11:41:00 PM

The first compound was invented at an Iowa university, as an engineering project. I believe that is where the Allen clan found it, built their own version and then put a commercial patent on it.

Brian Krebs · March 10, 2008, 01:40:00 AM

it took a couple years for the patent office to issue a patent.

I hear the use of the term 'traditional' from people that use other weapons; and in reference to me not using a 'modern bow'.

I don't remember anyone ever saying 'I shoot a traditional bow' back when compounds first became popular; and 'traditional bows' were hard to find. Used to be in the late 70's that traditional bows were hard to find. Even at big stores like Anderson Archery in Grand Ledge Michigan.

It was like someone bought them all up.

At first it was the "old kind" of bows; and then somewhere it just started being called 'traditional archery'. I blame That Nelson guy at Anderson Archery........

Ron LaClair · March 10, 2008, 01:56:00 AM

OK OK I admit it... I invented the term Traditional Archery.

:rolleyes:

laddy · March 10, 2008, 01:57:00 AM

When I was a kid in the 60s, those Root and American archery bows that were pictured in the Anderson Archery catalog was my Disney land, but when I got my first Howard Hill brochure I went on a trip that i am still on. Except for my part of one season with two compounds and my target bow that I couldn't seem to hit deer with, I have felt a tradition kindred type of spirit with that which came before me. I could see this trad thing getting diluted if we forget where we came from. Like in a song I wrote " YOu can tell where our goin' son by seein' where you've been, We all need to take a look back every now and then."

Molson · March 10, 2008, 02:12:00 AM

When I was first getting into recurves from compounds, I bought the Traditional Bowyers Bible 1,2, and 3. Excited to learn about recurves and longbows, I opened them up and started reading. I soon discovered the series considered all wood/natural material bows traditional and glass bows modern! I was a bit surprised by that. I was just getting excited about glass bows and here was a whole other world I knew nothing about. Seems the longer I enjoy archery, the more sense that definition makes.

As for the term itself, might as well just blame it on Ron.

legends1 · March 10, 2008, 02:15:00 AM

Its funny this topic came up.We were talking about this very thing in the shop the other day.I came from a archery family.I'll be 48yrs. this year.Shot all my life.Im in a sport that now we call Traditional.To me i just call it Archery.It feels odd to say "Traditional Archery".But as for the purpose of detailing what style of archery,i guess we are Tradition Archery.

dino · March 10, 2008, 08:04:00 AM

Michael,
I started shooting just after the advent of the compound. It was always just archery around our house and anybody that shot a bow was a friend. Just the way we were raised. I wasn't till some where in the late 80s or early 90s I first heard the term "traditional" (I didn't know Ron at the time)

Felt odd at first, but I guess you can call it whatever you want.

Irish · March 10, 2008, 08:48:00 AM

Some info I found

"So where did the modern compound bow come from? American ingenuity, that's where. In striving to make a better bow a gentlemen in the early 1960s came up with the idea of using pulleys to improve performance. At this time American was experiencing a surge of interest in outdoors activities and particularly bow hunting. With so many Americans absorbed in this aspect of the sport, it was not surprising that someone started experimenting to improve the efficiency of the bow.

Fred Bear had begun to improve bows with new materials and designs but one man changed the way we would bow hunt forever. A mechanic from Missouri called Howless Wibur Allen. Early in 1961, he was inspired by the launch of the Hoyt Pro Medallist. This was one of the first bows designed with stabilizers. Allen thought that he could further enhance the performance of the archery bow by using another ancient invention; the wheel. Allen's brilliant idea was to harness the block and tackle principal of a pulley to a bow. In this way he reasoned that the mechanical advantage of the pulley should enable a heavier weight bow to be drawn.

He created his first experimental bow by sawing off the limb tips of an old recurve and attaching small pulleys to it. The resulting bow had a very short draw-length as he had used conventional, center axle pulleys. However, Allen did not give up but continued to experiment with different pulley systems. The most successful arrangements included cam shaped wheels and round pulleys with offset axles called eccentrics. These methods not only provided a more usable draw length but also resulted in an enormously beneficial side effect. The bow reached its peak weight at mid draw then reduced to a much lighter weight at full draw. This enabled Allen to comfortably hold at full draw, a heavy weight bow. When he tested these bows, Allen discovered that they had a really excellent cast and a surpassingly flat trajectory. After he refined his new bow, H W Allen filed patent application number 3,486,495 on 23rd June 1966 for an "Archery bow with draw-force multiplying attachments" and the compound bow was born."

Taken from another site

NDTerminator · March 10, 2008, 09:05:00 AM

I too have been around long enough to have been there & shooting back when no bows had wheels.

I personally think in terms of Trad becoming a separate thing in somewhere in the late 70's. That's when compounds really took over and
became viewed as the dominant, if not the only, weapon of "modern" archery.

It took quite awhile for the term "Traditional" to catch on. After compounds became dominant all Trad bows irregardless of type or design were referred to as "recurves". Anyone who shot Trad for anything but bowfishing were pretty much viewed as EDP's (Emotionally Disturbed Persons) that didn't have the common sense to get a compound!

Even now (at least around here) the modern crowd says "Terminator shoots recurves", rather than, "Terminator shoots Traditional". If I showed up at a shoot toting one of Tim Finley's beautiful longbows, I would still be shooting a recurve in the view of most.

About the only folks who use the term are the Trad guys themselves and a couple of the guys in the bow shops at the Scheels stores around the state...