HH bug got me ... Part One!

Nate Steen . · August 12, 2011, 04:42:00 PM

Looper, sounds like you now know what 'timing' is...good job!

Erik...Rob said it true, you can have a variance in spines depending on the shaft and where the stiffest spine is...we are taught that it is always the stiffest along the grain, but that doesn't always hold true. you can do a field check without a spine tester by holding a shaft at each end by your thumbs and forefingers and flexing the shaft with the thumbs against the grain....then while flexing, roll the shaft between the fingers....you will feel the difference in spine between the edge grain and flat grain....and it'll surprise you how many shafts feel stiffer on the flat grain.....

wood is a very forgiving material in an arrow, the trick is to get them matched to the bow and to each other in the set.....oldtimers would make up hundreds of shafts/arrows and then shoot them for spine... and then group like spines together. nowadays we buy arrows by the dozen and it's hard to afford enough arrows to test that way....so we use spinetesters....lol

Kelly · August 12, 2011, 05:12:00 PM

If your bow can tell the difference in 15# of spine then there is something wrong with the tillering job. No bows are that touchy, IMHO.

I have always been able to shoot 15-25# spine difference in all bows I've shot and everyone else should be able, too.

That said, if one is buying wood shafts that are not hand spined and marked by the seller then one could be getting shafts varying in spine 25# or more. It has been my experience that most all so called "factory" 5# spined match are really more like 25-50# spine, or more mis-matched.

Hildebrand is the only manufacturer I know of that hand spines their shafts. The rest use machines to get their "factory" spine.

Rob DiStefano · August 12, 2011, 06:15:00 PM

for me, it's not a big issue about matching the spine to the bow, because i have no problem with uber weak or stiff arrows within a spine range of 40# to 70# out of a 50# hill style longbow. i can make adjustments. however, a batch of arrows that have a mixture of spines that can swing 10-20# are a problem and those arrows will not group for me, and probably not for anyone.

then there is the matter of arrow trueness, and in that matter beloved woodies can be a monkey on yer back.

the art of shooting a stick bow well involves consistency of tackle and form, talent, discipline, and compromise. everything about trad archery is both subjective and "an experiment of one". but that's why we like the challenge.

Nate Steen . · August 12, 2011, 07:36:00 PM

you guys are right....I've found that a weak arrow or stiff arrow will still fly to the target I've picked, although it might wobble on the way there... Somtimes the 'wobble' is a shooting form issue, and I'd venture a guess that most of the time is a back tension/release issue that causes bad arrow flight, not the arrow spine....

RC · August 12, 2011, 08:20:00 PM

My arrows tend to wobble when I`ve shot a lot and feeling stronger I guess I pull a bit passed anchor and won`t be perfectly lined up and pulling straight.If that makes sense. My first shot of the day is usually very good and thats where my confidence is at....I`m having dreams about killing deer now...4 more weeks to go...RC

ron w · August 13, 2011, 09:51:00 AM

Been looking at this post on and off. Like the slide show and have thought about about a Hill or Hill style bow for awhile. Had a Cheetha, and a Jerry Hill Stalker that I should of kept. So the other day I stumbled into a Redman that a Guy needs to sell. So next week I will be the proud owner of a 45# @ 28" Redman that I think is 68" long. I shot it a year ago but can't remember the grip. I shot well then and it was in excellent shape. I'm looking forward to getting it tuned to my tastes and doing a bit of stumping with it!

scharms · August 13, 2011, 07:51:00 PM

I finally got my HH (came today actually)! Bought a 57lb Cheetah from another member here. Going to see how it likes carbons...

August 13, 2011, 07:52:00 PM

Looking at the slide show, and in comparison am I not seeing it right or does Howard's money bow have a really thick core for a 56 pound bow?

Benny Nganabbarru · August 13, 2011, 10:43:00 PM

Scharms, it'll hate 'em, mate!

August 14, 2011, 02:08:00 PM

For checking for the stiff side I have always used the old Microflite system as Frank Eicholz explained to me in a letter.. That is, hold the arrow down on a nice flat formica table top with my palm and then left the other end a bit. Then roll the shaft under my palm. the stiff side really shows up. Most of the time they are very close to matching the grain. If there is a lot of action in the grain of the wood, the stiff side sometimes is somewhat angled and very rarely does it cross the grain completely in my experience. For the arrows that are quite far off,I turn them into blunts, they don't seem to be as stable for maintaining straightness over time. I have played around my grain scale, I can get fairly consistent relative numbers with bending the shafts on that as well, by setting the arrow and the scale on a pair of books and then pushing down in the center with a weight. This does not work with my little digital scale however, it maxes out to soon.
By the way I will be shooting my longbows from the comfort of a Huntmore chair this season, I am getting soft taking a mechanical contraption like that into the woods with me?

tradlongbow · August 15, 2011, 10:00:00 AM

Two weeks until Florida's Archery season open, I can't wait to get in the woods. I was out scouting around last Friday, it's the same area that I let several small bucks pass me by. Those bucks should be much bigger this year. I can't wait to get out there.

Darren

swampthing · August 15, 2011, 10:19:00 AM

You should have seen it in color...

dragonheart · August 15, 2011, 02:44:00 PM

How many Hill shooters can feel the arrow shaft on their "trigger" finger on their bowhand when they draw the bow?

August 15, 2011, 04:00:00 PM

I can.

Looper · August 15, 2011, 04:05:00 PM

I can, too. On my field tips, I can feel the little ridge where the tip meets the shaft. On my broadheads, I pull them back to where the back of the blade barely touches my finger. It keeps me from short drawing.

Mudd · August 15, 2011, 04:23:00 PM

I can also.

God bless,Mudd

stik&string · August 15, 2011, 04:31:00 PM

Me too.

Rob DiStefano · August 15, 2011, 04:34:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by dragonheart:
How many Hill shooters can feel the arrow shaft on their "trigger" finger on their bowhand when they draw the bow?

nope, don't feel or see the arrow. don't wanna.

Benny Nganabbarru · August 15, 2011, 04:46:00 PM

Not me, either.

August 15, 2011, 05:49:00 PM

I also like my broadheads to just tag my finger as I pull though the release. That is pretty easy to do with a Hill, but nearly impossible with some crowned arrow rests on recurves. If I don't feel it, I think about it and for me that is more distracting and less confident. I know I see the arrow and I do give it more 'acknowledgement' on long shots, but 30 yards and under if I try to do the Hill secondary aiming thing mechanically like a bow sight, I find that I am better off not thinking about it's exact position and letting the relative position be instinctive. I have never understood the totally not seeing the arrow thing, it is right there. Not trying to get into a Hill bow shooting argument, but when I try to not see it, that is all I can think about and I look at it, which is the worst thing one can do with a Hill longbow.