A new arrow just rocked my world, now I need help

MagicBH · June 10, 2015, 07:40:00 PM

I need your HELP -
Predator Recurve - 54#

I have been shooting carbon express heritage 250's, stock inserts with a 125gr field point. 3 fletch 5.5 inch LW shield cut. They shoot pretty good. not great but pie plate good out to 30 yards when im on my game.

I picked up some 350's, with 50gr brass inserts and 145gr field points. These arrows are quad fletched with 4". They fly amazing. Only tested to 20 yards but they were quiet and seemed to hit hard where I was looking.

The charts say I should shoot the 250's BUT:

Do you think the 350's shooting better due to:

1. Spine
2. Heavier insert
3. Heavier head
4. Quad fletched.

Thanks guys and gals.

jt85 · June 10, 2015, 07:43:00 PM

Have you shot any of these bare shaft?

MagicBH · June 10, 2015, 07:45:00 PM

Never done a bare shaft test, the 350's came fletched and made up.

jon boy · June 10, 2015, 07:49:00 PM

Heavier head and brass insert will effectively weaken the spine on the 350's. The bow you shoot is also a very fast bow and shoots faster than most 60 lb. bows.

MagicBH · June 10, 2015, 08:03:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by jon boy:
Heavier head and brass insert will effectively weaken the spine on the 350's. The bow you shoot is also a very fast bow and shoots faster than most 60 lb. bows.

What does translate to?

Sorry, I have always been a guy that shoots at the pie plate, hunts 15 yards and hits the woods. I am looking to expand my knowledge and effectiveness now.

rolltidehunter · June 10, 2015, 08:13:00 PM

What is your draw length? I shoot 53lbs@26 CEH 250's with 275 grains up front. If you shoot the CEH 350 your going to need a lot more tip weight. Scrape the fletchings off one 250 and one 350 and see how they fly. 350's are going to be too stiff

MagicBH · June 10, 2015, 08:25:00 PM

The 250 are 28.5 inches

The 350 are 30.5 inches

oldbohntr · June 10, 2015, 08:25:00 PM

Well, everyone has an opinion, but I've found that there are some bows that just seem to like an arrow that the charts(and other guys) say won't work!

I've used a lot of CEs and I'd say you're in between the 150 and 250. But, they're right- a bare shaft test will tell you a lot. But, you need to start with a long arrow of each spine and cut them down as necessary. BTW, 4 fletches at 90 degrees do nothing for you, IMO. And 195 grains isn't enough to weaken a 350 shaft to fit your needs.

Then again, your own posts say a lot. You're on a pie plate at 20 yards, you typically don't shoot past 15, and the fletched 350s fly "amazing" and are quiet. Hey, you could do a lot worse!

MagicBH · June 10, 2015, 08:33:00 PM

Thats why I say it rocked my world.

My wife shoots the 150's and I know those are no good for me. They are all over the place.

I guess I need to do some research on bare shaft tuning. Never tried it and not sure where to start other than google.

Anyone have a guide they trust to get me started?

MagicBH · June 10, 2015, 08:53:00 PM

I just watched this. Makes sense to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Ff9n9UV3s

katman · June 10, 2015, 09:21:00 PM

http://www.acsbows.com/bareshaftplaning.html

Very good bare shaft tuning guide

Sapcut · June 10, 2015, 09:43:00 PM

High FOC is the way to go and probably what you're finding out for yourself.

Biathlonman · June 10, 2015, 10:20:00 PM

I'm shooting 340s off a 51 bow and they fly amazing. Let the bow tell you what it needs and not the Internet experts.

creekwood · June 11, 2015, 11:57:00 AM

QuoteOriginally posted by MagicBH:
I just watched this. Makes sense to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Ff9n9UV3s

This is a very good video. It really is just that simple. True it is that a large feather will straighten an arrow in flight, but it is just like throwing an anchor out and and it slows the arrow down robbing the shaft of energy and increasing trajectory if the arrow isn't tuned for the bow.

June 11, 2015, 03:42:00 PM

Four four inch feathers will not make all that much drag, if all you are seeing is feathers spinning around the nock, there is nothing to fix. Predators are fast powerful bows and if the arrow stabilizes quickly coming out of the bow, there is less chance of clipping a twig when shooting at game.

MagicBH · June 15, 2015, 10:11:00 AM

WHAT A DIFFERENCE BARE SHAFT TUNING MADE!

Here is what I found:

150 - Too Weak
250 - To Stiff (where I had them previously cut)
350 - Way to stiff

So What I need to do now is swing by the archery shop and get some full length 250s and start there.

This does go to show how much fletching does help. I never thought I had an issue before and clearly I did. The fletching was working hard in order to put my arrows where I was looking.

Thanks a ton everyone.

katman · June 15, 2015, 04:46:00 PM

Great to hear your on track now, I bet your number and severity of fliers will reduce once tuned.

old_goat2 · June 15, 2015, 05:32:00 PM

You are shooting very light points by most but not all trad shooters standards, it is possible you could get the 250's you have to spine with heavier tips. We shoot nothing less than 200gr up front on our arrows. Distances your shooting, a super heavy weight tip up front is negligible on trajectory, now start shooting some longer range 3d courses and trajectory starts mattering more.

MagicBH · June 16, 2015, 12:35:00 AM

Great thinking Old_goat2,

I quad fletched the same 250's tonight and will test in the morning how they fly with 145 gr head.

I am going to order some 100 gr inserts for them before I head out and buy new shafts. I am thinking the combo of the inserts and heavier points might weaken the spine just right.

Try to save a little bit of money.

ps - Special thanks to the Trad gang community for all the help.

Auzoutdoor · June 16, 2015, 07:34:00 AM

I have some full length v force shafts spined 75-90 and with 450grains up front they fly like darts bare shaft even with b/heads. This from a quick 54lb longbow.Same setup about 2 inches shorter shoot same from the same design bow but 64lb so if you play with point weight you can get almost any shaft to fly nice.
Cheers KIM