Ok guys. I have read a bunch about tuning But I am having some sort of issue.I keep worrying it is me. The bow is a SPECTACULAR, toelke whip. 58"50#@28. i am drawing 27.5". I checked the weight at this length and she is approximately 47.5#.
My friend has the sister bow to this one with the exact same specs and he draws the same give or take a hair. He has beaman centershot 500's flying great at 30" with 200g up front.
I have the same arrows and made them the same. The arrows are showing weak. I think very weak. Nock is left from any were from 2"-4". I am at 29.5" and 175g up front.

I doubt if your friend is drawing the same length as you, most likely less.  I would think that you need to cut your shafts shorter to stiffen them.  If you haven't already done so, you should bare shaft an arrow to find out exactly where you are.  There are many threads on this subject you can search for if this process is unfamiliar to you.  Also, never expect two different people with the same bow, same draw length and same arrow to have the same results.

X2 what Creekwood said.

Could be a false weak and you might have needed 250 grains up front.  Oh the joys of tuning.  I shoot a 46@27 whip and draw 27"

I got mine shooting great with GT trad 1535's cut to 30" with 200 grains up front.  Im also shooting a 64" whip though.  I am kicking around ordering a 58" whip!  Love these Toelke bows.

I have the same bow and draw weight as you, but my draw length is 26.  500s were way too stiff.  600s with 200 grains up front full length tuned well for me.  Like creek wood said-- bareshaft.  If your form is not perfect ( I know mines not) you'll be looking for "close enough" results-- I.e 7 arrows show slightly weak 1 shows a little stiff.  I like my end result to be a slightly weak arrow as I shoot from positions out of trees that may cause me to lose a 1/4 inch of draw length.

I agree that it may be a false weak indication. My 500 spined GT3555s are 29.5" with 61 grains of insert and internal weight and 175 gr points for my bows that range from 43# to 47# at my 28" draw.

I'm wondering if your fletching is bouncing off the sideplate. Are you seeing signs of wear on the sideplate? Or on your lower, inside hen feather?

Ha guys first off thank you all for helping me. A couple aditives. I have a couple 5575's 30" with 175g up front fletched with 4" parobolic feathers the SEEM to fly well. But they do show signs of wear on the feather that is indexed to the bottom inside. After I posted this I ended up calling Dan Toelke. He is SO pacient and nice. He recommended to shoot the beaman 500 29.5" I already have made up with each point wieght using a mechanical reliece. Marking off the shaft of corse at my draw length. This removed my release from the equation. The arrow flew straight showing nock left, about 1" or less wit the 175g point. 200g showed more left and 145g showed slight right.
I am going to fletch 3 arrows 30" and use 175g points. (Aluminum inserts) and really work on my release.

I would be worried about tuning with a release if you don't plan to shoot with it all the time. The release lets go of the string in a straight line where as with fingers the string slips off the tips of your fingers starting a side to side motion as it pushes the arrow along the power stroke...I sure could be wrong but I would be surprised if the arrow would tune the same both ways?....BeauJ

If I read it correctly, fishbones used the release to eliminate a human-induced problem that was causing some unusual results. Sounds like that pin pointed the problem as being his release and he's now working on correcting that. I agree a release would tune differently than the cleanest finger release, but it did allow him to locate the source of the problem.

Pretty ingenious on Dan's part I thought.

Would highly suspect that you are quite stiff and may require a substantially heavier point.

Absolutely, do not cut shafts until verifying.

Yep. Stiff.
Put 300 gr up front and see how it shoots.
It's a good idea to verify weak/stiff with different point weights before cutting.
Fwiw, I shoot a 51# longbow cut 1/8th from center drawing 27 3/4" and a Beman ICS cut to 30" with 300 gr up front flies quite well.
You're closer to center with the whip and again with the skinny shafts but I still think you're stiff.

Mechanical release absolutely is hugely different from a finger release and tells you absolutely nothing towards the same!!!!!! Fingers even at the same draw length take up way more string which makes a couple or more pounds different draw weight!!! My wife just had to go to a release with her bow because of wrist difficulties and lost two full inches of draw length and twenty fps of speed but her arrows flew great still, that's how much difference a finger release makes on tuning!! You have to tune the way you shoot normally!!!

fishbones - well, you've got some readers of this thread that think your shafts are too stiff, and others that think they are too weak.  Please bare shaft one of the arrows using your normal finger release and report back to us; too stiff? or too weak?  We would all like to know.

I shoot heavier bows with 500s cut 29" with 250 up front.  They fly like they've been shot down a pipe.  Count me among those who think your arrows are too stiff.

order a filed point test kit, it will have 2 field points of weights in a good range, if possible get a heavy weight test kit as well. they are well worth it and you will have every point weight from 100gr all the way to 300gr at your disposal for testing. and are you shooting with the bow vertical to check the bareshafts? a canted release could alter the shot a bit to.

I shoot the Centershot arrows. I would cut the arrow to 29" BOP and stick a 50 grain brass insert in it with the 175 grain field point. This will give you a ~500 grain arrow. This arrow combination would work great in your bow. I have found this combination to work in my 45# to 50# modern long bows. Even my vintage Bear bows like this arrow set up.

Just try it and let me know what you think...pretty sure you will be happy.

Ron

QuoteOriginally posted by 9 Shocks:
Could be a false weak and you might have needed 250 grains up front.  Oh the joys of tuning.  I shoot a 46@27 whip and draw 27"

I got mine shooting great with GT trad 1535's cut to 30" with 200 grains up front.  Im also shooting a 64" whip though.  I am kicking around ordering a 58" whip!  Love these Toelke bows.

You should not be weak with that setup.  I shoot a very similar set up except I use a 50 grain brass insert and 150 grain FP.  Full length shaft.

Hello guys I apologize for it taking soooo  long to get back to you all. I am no expert and I really can't explain why I found this but hear is what I have done. I met up with my buddy and shot his arrows. They flew great. So I made 3 arrows up. 30" centershot 500, with aluminum insert and 200g  field points. 4" parabolic feathers and started to shoot. I personally made changes to how o shoot. I changed my anchor point. Thumb nuckel at base of jaw bone. Also I changed back to shooting my demascus glove. All of this has given me a pretty straight arrow. I went with my buddy to a 3d range and he watched my arrow flight and couldn't see any thing wrong. For what it is worth I was successful in hitting targets out to about 37 yards.
I am now shooting every day and getting ready for Denton hill. Thank you guys for all of your shared knowledge. This is a really great community. Ps. The bare shaft testing I did after changing to the glove seemed to show about the same as the release. Close to the same flight results.

Have your friend shoot your set up.  He may just have a better release so it does not show the same as you do.

We tend to make simple things into really complex issues.
ChuckC