i've given away bareshaft vs BH at the moment, just can't seem to get reliable results from bareshaft flight.

i've been shooting full length shafts with the point weight i want to use then changing point weight to lighter and heavier and checking flight and making decisions based on this. put a lighter point on and it flys better, trim a little, then the next heaviest point and so forth till i get the weight i want to use shooting good.

bareshafts just seem to fishtail no matter what i do and this makes it next to impossible to draw conclusions to whether it needs to be stiffer or weaker.

now i just basically start full length and trim till it's good.


anyone else doing something similar?

I do basically the same thing, but with a bare shaft.
1. Shoot bare shaft with weight I want. If it goes into the target with nock pointing left then I need to shorten(stiffen) the shaft.
2. Cut shaft, reattach point
3. Shoot
4. Repeat until my bare shaft enters the target at least close to straight at 20 yards, or until it just starts to impact going the other way.
5. Cut the rest of my arrows to the same length and fletch them.

Since I usually don't tune each arrow individually, I might get one or two that don't fly as well as the others, but I can live with it for the time it saves.
When I finally get around to making some hunting arrows, I'll probably tune each one individually.

Form and release have to be pretty good to get perfect flight from a bare shaft. How we handle the bow is all important.

I tend to judge more by point of impact than whether or not the arrow kicks in the target. One reason is that my target is a bag of rags and no arrow is necessarily going to land straight.

I look for bare shafts to group with fletched arrows.

I repeat comparing fletched broadhed groups to fletched field tip groups.

I do it something like that, except I cut my shafts to length first.  In my case that's 29 inches, one inch past the riser at full draw.  To start with, there are enough carbon spine sizes around now to get pretty close from the get go.  

Then with insert and point weight, I can play around with front end weight until I get an arrow that's flying well, which usually doesn't take very long.  I do most of this with fletched shafts.  I'll then do a little bare shafting to verify and fine tune.  

I usually have a specific arrow and point weight in mind when I start.  Sometimes, I need to build the side plate in or out to get the flight I want with the arrow weight/FOC I want.

Works for me.

Oh, I should have mentioned that I shoot wood shafts, and I'm not good enough of a shot to notice that one group is impacting 1.5" to the left. I pay attention to how they fly and impact the target. If they are flying at an angle just before impact, that's what I adjust for. I can generally put an underspined bare shaft into the same 6" group as my fletched shafts, but I know it's underspined by the way it flies. If that makes sense.

It is all for not , if your BH tipped arrow does not mark where the field tipped fletched arrow marks from up close and personal out to your maximum effective hunting range.

Even O.L. Adcock,who developed the arrow tuning planing method, would often forgoe bareshafting and tune BH tipped fletched shafts to field point tipped fletched shafts. Note: O. L. also stated to ignore the tail wagging and focus on the mark.

The bottom is how the BH's fly in relation to the fletched field point tipped shafts.

So, being devils advocate here.... as usual... if I make arrows, fletched etc, that fly well with broadheads , what does it matter how they match up to bare shafts or fletched shafts with field points ?

Shoot em with broadheads and practice what you will be doing.  They either fly right, or they don't.
CHuckC

ChuckC...

A BH tipped fletched shaft that does not share the same mark as a corresponding field point tipped fletched shaft likely does approach highly desireable optimum flight.

Arrow Flight- the 'ENABLER' permits other factors to work at full efficiency
-- Poor arrow flight squanders arrow force
-- Even with every other factor in place, w/o good arrow flight you'll still have poor arrow performance

There could also be inherent accuracy errors if one routinely practises with field tips and neglects to engrain the actual mark of his untuned BH tipped shaft.

I do the same thing Nick does. I have been shooting 175gr up front for the past couple of years.  I start with full length axis shafts , 500's, 400's and 340's etc. depending on the bow.  I trim a 1/4 inch until I have perfect flight. I then move back to 30 yards to exaggerate if there is any nock left or right. I always keep a bare shaft in my quiver and shoot it regularly to check my set up. Once I get my bare shaft testing, I fletch one shaft and shoot my broadhead. It usually has perfect arrow flight depending on the broadhead.  Some set ups like different heads. Try this, someone suggested that I try to shoot 175 grain VPA 2 blade with a bare shaft. I was uneasy but I did it and they flew great.

QuoteOriginally posted by The Night Stalker:
 Try this, someone suggested that I try to shoot 175 grain VPA 2 blade with a bare shaft. I was uneasy but I did it and they flew great.

***UNSAFE RECOMMENDATION!!!***

***UNSAFE RECOMMENDATION!!!***

***UNSAFE RECOMMENDATION!!!***

I do the same Clint. With my snap release I can never bareshaft tune. I also use the old paper tuning method when beginning with precut shafts.

I am with Friend - my go to method for tuning is does my field tipped arrows and broadhead tipped arrows impact the same place 15-50 yards (at 50 yards I expect my group to be about 12 inches or so but my BH and field tips should group together).  If not then I adjust accordingly based upon where my broadhead tipped arrow hits. I shoot big nasty simmons so if out of tune it becomes apparent - especially at 50 yards.

If BH tipped arrow impacts to right of field pt tipped arrows (looking at target) too weak... Left = too stiff.  High... move nock up, low = move nock down.

I guess I just never had a good enough release (especially with a glove) to get consistent results with bare shafting.

the reason bare shaft vs BH has fallen out of favour for me is that i can get bare's and BH's to group together but arrow flight is terrible.

kentucky- i think i've rediscovered paper tuning.
i tried it again yesterday and i could see changes in tears with changes in point weight and nock point.

I will respectfully suggest if your bare shafts are always fishtailing, then something is wrong with your setup, like brace height or nocking point, or your form. The whole point of bare shaft tuning is to find the bare shaft that flies straight. Then you do the tweaking.

QuoteOriginally posted by DaveT1963:
I am with Friend - my go to method for tuning is does my field tipped arrows and broadhead tipped arrows impact the same place 15-50 yards (at 50 yards I expect my group to be about 12 inches or so but my BH and field tips should group together).  If not then I adjust accordingly based upon where my broadhead tipped arrow hits. I shoot big nasty simmons so if out of tune it becomes apparent - especially at 50 yards.

If BH tipped arrow impacts to right of field pt tipped arrows (looking at target) too weak... Left = too stiff.  High... move nock up, low = move nock down.

I guess I just never had a good enough release (especially with a glove) to get consistent results with bare shafting.

Would this be true for right and left handed shooters? .. Or would stiff/weak be opposite of stated above . Thanks

That is for right handed shooter.  Left handed would be opposite inregards to the stiff/weak.... up and down remains the same.

Guess I do it differently.........first I work it out using a formula that accounts for bow weight, string type, riser cut etc-you know the one, or you can find it here on this site.
Then I spine and cut the shaft, taper, stick the point and nock on, and shoot-95% of the time it is bang on at 20 yds. Occasionally it requires minor fiddling. I compare to an identical shaft that has been fletched-using FP and BH (no BH on unfletched shaft); and presto I'm done!
The fact that I only shoot wood simplifies the whole thing; I think you could get most of the way using Stu's calculator for carbon and aluminum?    

Bjorn x2, with the exception that I use Aluminum's and Carbons. My last 5 bows it's been spot on.

QuoteOriginally posted by ChuckC:
So, being devils advocate here.... as usual... if I make arrows, fletched etc, that fly well with broadheads , what does it matter how they match up to bare shafts or fletched shafts with field points ?

Shoot em with broadheads and practice what you will be doing.  They either fly right, or they don't.
CHuckC

I think that would work fine if you can afford to burn up broadhead targets and broadheads...and I can't.

I need my broadheads to shoot like my field points so I can practice with field points.

I use bare shafts for the purpose of getting my tune close and minimize the number of times I have to rip abroadhead through my targets.

The final check is always the broadhead because, you're right, that's what really counts.