Dave says he has to.reinforce the.riser for FF does any one shoot FF on non FF silvertips When I  use to build self bows I would use 6 strand FF with out any.problems .seems to.me.it would be.in reinforcing the tips.let me know who shoots any thing diff on a non FF tip.  Thanks.

I have asked Dave about this before, it involves a Dymondwood base riser and two extra "thin" lams in the accent stripe for a total of seven lams (FF model) rather than five lams (for B50 Dacron models).

I completely respect what Dave says, however, unless there was an objective test done to prove otherwise, I feel a non-FF bow/riser could handle a FF string, especially if the loops were padded.  Having said this...I would not do this with MY Silvertip out of respect and the cost being too great.

My next Tip will be FF compatible.  It's not a speed thing but IMO FF bows shoot tighter, quieter and have a better harmonic upon the release.  FF strings are extremely durable and have little to no creep.

Kris

I own two Silvertips and neither one of them are FF. I don't want to chance hurting the bow so I stay away from FF. Do you really get any benefit from shooting FF other than a few fps?

I don't own a FF bow so I'm just curious.    

If the bowyer says it is non ff, why would you want to chance ruining a bow by using ff. My non ff custom silver tip is plenty fast with B50 and I would not put ff on it, spent too much money on it to take the chance of it breaking. I own ff bows and cannot tell the difference shooting the same arrow out of all my bows including the non ff silvertip, arrows hit the same.

The high performance strings of today do have their advantages.  Not only will they provide an increase in performance but their also more durable, tend to last longer and provide us with the ability to shoot a stiffer arrow.

I've found that every bow responds differently to the use of FF.  Some bows will quiet down, some will pick up some noise.  Some bows will also experience a nice gain in fps while will only experience a few fps.  

I love to tune and fiddle with bows and found that there is a string material for every bow that seems to work well.  Some prefer dacron flemish while some work very well with dacron endless loop strings like Jon is using.  My Shrew bow is extremely quiet with 450+ but noisey with Dyna 97.  I'll even go as far as to say the colors of the string make a difference.  Hopefully Allen (AS) will step in and support that comment.  Even the wax the string is made with can affect the quietness of the string.

With that said my son has been shooting a FF string on his Silvertip for 5 years and the limbs are not reinforced.  What he does do is shoot a heavy arrow and only 50lbs so I can't believe he's stressing the limb tips too much.  It's a risk we take so that he can shoot a heavier arrow at a decent speed which helps in penetration.

Tim

FWIW, I put an SBD 8 strand FF on my 50# recurve, replacing a 14 strand B-50. Went up several spine weights with pretty much the same point of impact. I would guess super heavy arrows show less change. I went to a 30.5" 2219 with 200gr up front. Was shooting 2117s, same length with 175gr + 10gr on insert. Will it hurt my bow? Guess I will wait and see. I didn't pay $thousand +  for my bow, though.

Thanks Tim!

I don't use FF on my Schafer's not built for it. I would if the limbs had micarta or horn though    

I do have 2 made for FF and the performance gains are noticeable! For example, my nonFF 65 lb TD shoots the same spine, speed etc as my 56 lb FF TD! Sold me on FF! And the lighter bow is tons quieter with the skinny string! All my new Schafer's will be built for FF    

If Dave still builds them Non FF I guess there can't be a good enough reason to go with FF. Otherwise that's all he would do!! Just my opinion!     I was just out shooting my Slivertip [NON FF] with 600 gr carbons at 35 yards and doing just fine, it's B-50 or B-55 for me....cheaper to!

Ooops:)

Thanks for the example Bob. That would sell me too! I don't see buying another Silvertip till I get old like Tim and start having shoulder problems!    :p

I aint no bowyer.so I shoot what he tells me too.cost to much to screw up. my tip is ff an I love it.tim how dose color affect anything.I agree with what you said in your post but you lost me when you said color matters.I was just wondering if you could please explain.just wanten to learn.thanks ED

Hey ...hey easy young man!  I did shoot 15 arrows last night with my daughters 30lb bow!    

Not bad after having shoulder surgery only 15 days ago!      :eek:

Your an animal Tim!            

Ed,

Allen who makes quite a few strings for folks on this site and I had this conversation awhile back and I'm sure he'll chime in.   He's noticed a difference in softness with some colors and softness in both string and wax type.  

Help Allen.  Tell them I'm not a crazy!

As much as I would like to jump on the "Tim is crazy" bandwagon, I have to admit he is correct in saying that even some colors of a particular string material can be quieter than others.    

I discontinued using a particular color specifically because it was very stiff to work with and tended to be noisier.


.....so there...Tim's not insane...at least in this circumstance!    


or who knows, maybe we both are!

I concur with Tim. One string doesnt fit all; whether its FF, Dacron, D97, skinny, pink, blue,  or what have you.


My Tip is FF approved and it has a Cocobola riser. I have gone back and forth with strings on it and finally decided on a endless dacron. To me it feels better.

Tim,
  You may be right about the string color, but I'm not buying the not crazy.....    

  Happy to hear the shoulder is healing nicely..!

just curoius..mine is FF and AS is building me 2 strigs know..But Mike Stelega with Bruin was on the Non band wagon for a while,he's hard headed but still my friend,then woke up one day and realized the world really is round and started putting them on his bows and didnt change nothing..I just find it hard to believe the riser needs to be re-inforced,maybe the limb tips,but what do i know,I suck water and dry buildings for a livin..

Hey Jerry.......I remember when Black Widow was one of the only bowyers that would use FF strings.   The probthey oust bowyers were concerned with was the string cutting into the string groves.   With that concern many of them started reinforcing the tips, I think Bighorn called them bomb proof tips or something like that, but slowly one by one bowyers started giving the ok to use FF.   Another concern was FF and light carbon arrows.   Back than it was difficult to find carbons that had any weight to them and some folks where shooting 400 gr arrows out of 60lb bows.   I had a buddy break both a Fedora and a Widow doing this.   He was shooting 75lbs and 450 gr carbons,  pretty much like dry firing the bow.  

Today we have a much better choice of both carbon arrows and most bowyers build up the tips with micarta and pad the string loops so the stress on the entire bow is quite a concern.  

Yeah Jon, that post will show my age a bit.   I'm sure Tater may expand on this,  he is ALOT older than me!