What are the effects of FF on Bows compared to B50 type strings?
Given that once B50 Or Dacron strings stop stretching does this then have the same effect as low stretch FF ? Is FF really that hard on bows?I was looking at a FF compatible pretty footed riser with exotic timbers & a checkered grip but I was told by the builder that to build a bow with exotic timbers instead of diamond wood would void the warranty if shot with FF.Would the risk be high to use FF on this bow & is it worth the risk.I see most other builders use FF on this type of riser.

Stretch is a momentary elongation rather than a permanent elongation. Dacron or B-50 will never really stop stretching given fluctuations in load, temperature and humidity. The "fast flight" materials also stretch but much less and are therefore more stable.

All string materials creep depending on the stress load. Creep is a permanent elongation which is load dependent, apply more load, more elongation happens until the material finally reaches its breaking point.

Finally all string material will settle, this is an elongation of the bundle as the strands seek their place in the bundle, a newly made string will settle significantly especially a Flemish twist string as the twists tighten upon themselves.  

Yes, FF strings are murder on bows which are not built with reinforced tips, the danger is in the tips... not so much the riser.. it doesn't take very long to really screw up a bow with the incorrect string material..

I would listen to the manufacturer. If gthe bow isn't made for fast flight, I wouldn't use it.
I agree that the limb tips take a beating with FF, if not made for it, but also the riser. Shafer Silvertip risers are only made with diamond wood if you order a FF takedown recurve from them.

The first time my wife shot a "Wing" bow from the 60's with a ff string, the bow broke at one of the string nocks.  I would also llisten to the manufacturer.

Quote

I was told by the builder that to build a bow with exotic timbers instead of diamond wood would void the warranty if shot with FF

i think i would seriously consider talking to a few other bowyer's my friend. The above statement quoted is kind of like saying, if you put bias ply tires instead of radial tires on your truck, it will void the warranty.

Most  bows that are being built today, with the exception of self bows and board bows are FF compatible. Like Javi said here, it's just a concern in the tips of the limbs.

it has nothing to do with the riser material used.

QuoteOriginally posted by Gordon Jabben:
The first time my wife shot a "Wing" bow from the 60's with a ff string, the bow broke at one of the string nocks.  I would also llisten to the manufacturer.

The older bows did not use any phenolic on their tip overlays. The FF string can cut into the tips if the loops are not padded correctly when the string is built.

"I was told by the builder that to build a bow with exotic timbers instead of diamondwood would void the warranty if shot with FF"

For what it is worth he told me that too. He volunteered that he had done no testing with exotic woods and FF type string, all the testing was done with Dacron.

I have had a skinny D 97 string on a 1960 Grizzly for over 3 years, shoot the bow regularly and the bow stays strung-tips look the same and the bow shoots great. Not recommending, just reporting, what you do is up to you.
All of the bows that I shoot regularly have a FF type string on them including self bows-don't have any board bows.

QuoteFor what it is worth he told me that too. He volunteered that he had done no testing with exotic woods and FF type string, all the testing was done with Dacron.  

That is a scary thought.... if there is that much vibration going into the riser that it needs to be diamond wood to use a fast flight string to get a warranty....I'd say "Houston.... we have a problem here..."        

Well, both of my Blacktail TD risers are made of exotic woods (cocobolo, shedua, myrtle) and they both came from custom bowyer Norm Johnson with a fast flight 12 strand Dyna97 bowstring.

Now, I think Norm Johnson knows what he's doing as a custom bowyer since (I think) he's been building trad bows for at least 20 years.

I put a FF string on my OLD Browing Wasp with no tip reinforcment. Second shot ripped the string grove 1 1/2 inch down the limb.

I use fast flight on self bows and know many other bowyers who do.  Linen strings actually stretch less than fast flight.  Make sure tips are reinforced or loops are padded.

Bow CONSTRUCTION makes a huge difference--as much or more than the material itself.  If the string grooves aren't cut at the proper angle, it can cause a failure.

I've yet to see definative proof of "Fast Flight" being "hard" on a bow.  I've broken several bows, and seen/heard of several others--all but one had a dacron string on it.  The one that didn't was a BBO that had a faulty piece of bamboo on the back (it cracked when the bow was drawn).

My favorite bow has NEVER had a dacron string on it.  I've been shooting it for at least 15 years.  I draw 30.5", it's pulling 66#, and my arrows generally weigh around 9 gpp.  It's been dry fired, dropped, used and abused--and it's just fine.  I didn't have to pay any extra to have it built for "FF" strings.  The limbs are yew, the riser is cocobolo.

That being said, it's the bowyer's call on how to state their warranty.  

Chad

I would also follow the bowyers recommendation.  I have a diamond wood riser recurve that is FF compatible.  However, I prefer to shoot it with dacron, I like the feel of dacron better on this particular bow.  

As far as a problem with the riser section, that is simply a ridiculous statement. Especially since most people consider these to be finest recurves made.  The builder knows the bow better than anyone, and like Bjorn stated all of the testing that he has done has been with Dacron.

This is not about the bowyer you are talking about. I have a bow that the bowyer said to use dracron and it would last a lot longer then with FF.

With dracon it has a lot of hand shock with FF it is very nice to shoot, very very little to no shock. The bowyer also said his bows do not have hand shock. Have I got a surprise for him.

I would not buy a bow that you couldn't use FF on.

You know something..... If this guy is building footed risers on recurve bows without any fiberglass or phenolic accents.... i guess i could understand why he wouldn't want FF string on the bow....

if someone got the brace too low, and shooting light arrows..... that would be a bomb waiting to go off....

I'm with you Whittler.... i wouldn't buy a bow you couldn't run FF string on.

I think I have one of those bows and I have a 8 strand skiny string on this bow and you would not believe how this bow performs with this sting over b50. I would not shoot this bow with any other string and have not had any problems if everyone elses can do it I feel this bow can.   Widow

the bottom line, as i see it ...

1. a modern bow's bowyer should know how to build a stick bow that's more than capable of handling modern hmpe bowstrings.

2. if a stick bow is capable of handling modern hmpe bowstrings USE THOSE MODERN HMPE BOWSTRINGS and leave the polyester ("dacron") stuff for the older, less built bows.

3. that's it, nothing else i have to say.  

The unfortunate thing is the people I had email contact with were very nice, very helpful & there response times on my query's were very fast but at around $2000 including options for a bow with no warranty being used with FF it gave me concerns about the longevity of the bow.

QuoteOriginally posted by Bjorn:
I have had a skinny D 97 string on a 1960 Grizzly for over 3 years, shoot the bow regularly and the bow stays strung-tips look the same and the bow shoots great. Not recommending, just reporting, what you do is up to you.

I think you may be headed for trouble. I did the same thing on a Wing Slim Line Pro bow I have. Eventually the limb tip broke as a result. Wish I had never put that FF string on it now. Just as in your case it did fine for a couple of years. I knew better from all I had read but thought I could get by with it. I really liked that bow to.

That's understandable Lyonel.... if the builder didn't have those same concerns, he would most likely warranty it.

Seems kinda strange though.... to buy a BMW and loose the warranty because of the type of tires you put on it?..... it just doesn't set well.