Something evil about 15 yards?

Bladepeek · September 30, 2011, 09:07:00 PM

When I shoot a group of fletched arrows and one bare shaft at 5 yds or 10 yds, both go into the foam block dead straight and together. When i back up to 15 yds, the bare shaft goes in straight, the fletched arrows are ALWAYS nock left, but bare shaft and fletched hit same point of aim. If I back up further (aint easy - I have to climb up on the high ground behind a retaining wall)to 20 yds, both enter straight on again. Something drastically wrong with my release? Evil spirits in the back yard? What's wrong with this picture?

Bow Bum · September 30, 2011, 09:15:00 PM

Tough to say. If you were shooting today it could be the wind. My arrows were getting blown around a bit tonight.

B

danderson · September 30, 2011, 09:17:00 PM

sometimes it's as simple as how the arrow impacts the target when it sticks in. Paper tuning is a better confirmation what kind of nock travel you're getting

danderson · September 30, 2011, 09:18:00 PM

sometimes it's as simple as how the arrow impacts the target when it sticks in. Paper tuning is a better confirmation what kind of nock travel you're getting

Bladepeek · September 30, 2011, 09:30:00 PM

Fletched arrows rotating, causing them to slide sideways as they enter the foam? Really seems wierd. Sometimes I'm throwing some pretty wild arrows, but once in awhile everything comes together and they all clump together. The bare shaft still always enters straighter than the fletched arrows. Never tried paper tuning, so I guess that's next, although it's going to take a back seat to some woods time.

Bow Bum · September 30, 2011, 09:32:00 PM

Sounds like some inconsistency, and maybe fletch contact. I get some squirly arrows when my release and back tension get sloppy.

Roger Norris · September 30, 2011, 09:49:00 PM

You said ALWYAYS....that tells me it's not you, it's the set-up...

Bladepeek · September 30, 2011, 10:58:00 PM

Yeah, it really is always. I could understand the bare shaft going in slightly nock left or nock right if there's a minor spine issue, but I would expect the fletching to correct it at least partially if not completely. Maybe I can get some pics and somebody will spot something that I'm totally missing. I still have to think it's something with my release.

Looper · October 01, 2011, 12:03:00 AM

Shoot with the cock feather in and see if that changes it for you. Or rotate the nock if you can. You might be having some clearance issues. If your release is screwy or tense, you won't be getting good bareshaft flight.

Javi · October 01, 2011, 01:38:00 AM

I'd raise my nock a 1/32" and see if it helped..

Friend · October 01, 2011, 01:47:00 AM

Don't know the precise answer to your dilemma.

You may consider setting up where you have a little more range. If I bare shaft tune at my point-on range then re-validate at 3 yards, then all is good.

sweet old bill · October 01, 2011, 05:49:00 AM

I have that occur when I get a poor release.
Sometimes when I lock in, ancor try to hold to get that fine arrow alignment, aim and release.
It seems my tab does stick and I will get a arrow with nock left or even right. But it may also be shooting at close yardage how the arrow point enters the target.

SlowBowke · October 01, 2011, 06:12:00 AM

Id shoot a fletched arrow and compare the impact of the two.

O.L. Adcock, unless Im disremembering, first posted on this practice and while I'm NOT a bare shaft tuning "needed" advocate it does indeed work the few times I used it.

If the point of impact is the same as a fletched arrow (also assuming it's where you are wanting it to go) I am done.

If you scroll down he clearly mentions "ignoring the nock angle" (other than up and down for nock point purposes) and I agree with his reasons why (no offense to those that think it's mandatory).

After all that IS what feathers are for and WE are not using entirely center shot bows and mechanical releases.

http://bowmaker.net/tuning.htm

Even though I feel I can take an unknown COMPLETED arrow and "tune" it adequately for hunting (and have for multiple decades) this was still good info for this old timer and made lots of sense.

Oh yeah..........it WORKED GREAT too for those so inclined.

I like playing with such and yeah, will agree, "the best" is indeed the best but "enough is also enough" and about 47 gazillion arrow flingers before us, including some HUGE names we all know never made much mention of such being "needed" yet whacked every animal legal then over and over again.

I've got some I fine tuned down to a knat's keister and it was fun doing so but they dont fly OR group one iota better than my 25 year old Kelly Customs! (bought "over the counter" at Cloverdale).

I still think Kelly had a "mojo juice" he soaked em in!!

I would still use this process for a "problem set" of arrows, down to stripping feathers off one to tell me what the rip I did wrong buying them but just not OCD enough to make it my mainstay process to go shoot bambi's grandaddy.

That said, I will bow to O.L.'s superior knowledge of the process for bare shaft tuning.

God Bless
Slow

reddogge · October 01, 2011, 10:11:00 AM

I'd say your fletching is bouncing off the rest or something like that. Either raise the knocking point or try a raised rest like a feather rest or flipper or Bear Weatherest.

The bare shaft indicates the arrow is tuned to the bow so something else is wrong with the rest or fletching.

Only other suggestion is to shoot at 35-40 yards and watch the arrow flight. If no wobble or waggle then just go with it. Also shoot some broadheads to make sure the arrow is tuned.

October 01, 2011, 03:42:00 PM

You have not said if you can see the arrow going nock left in flight. If it were wood or aluminum shafts I would call 's' curve at 15 yards. I can hit coins at 10 yards and small discs at 18 yards. At 15 yards, I almost always shoot just left myself, unless I am shooting larger fletched arrows which changes the the path of the flight to shorter distances, but the 's' curve is still evident.

Bladepeek · October 01, 2011, 07:58:00 PM

Here's what I'm talking about. Sometimes I shoot tighter groups and often wider, but the angle of the arrows remains constant. I was standing directly behind the bare shaft arrow. It looks like the bareshaft went in nock right, but it really is aligned with my shooting position. I shot a group twice and you can it's pretty consistant. At 10 yards they all align and at 20 or more they align. Only at 13 - 16 yards do I get the fletched arrows going in nock left. I can see the nock in flight, but not well enough to see if it is moving left just before impact or what. Not really too worried about it, but it would be nice if the arrow would enter the deer straight on! For what it's worth, 1st group was with cock feather out. Second group was with cock feather in.

Javi · October 01, 2011, 10:21:00 PM

If you are not shooting that bare shaft at shoulder height you will often get a false nock level reading.. I suspect you need to raise your nocking point a bit..

Bladepeek · October 02, 2011, 03:04:00 PM

Will that change the lateral deflection? They are all going in perfectly horizontal; just nock left on the fletched arrows. I'll try raising the nock height a tad and see if that makes a difference. With cock feather in, though, none of them should be hitting the shelf. Worth a try. I'll yell loud and clear if it changes things. Otherwise, I'll just accept as a crazy natural phenomenon that's beyond my understanding. Or maybe avoid shooting at 15 yards?

Javi · October 02, 2011, 03:17:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Bladepeek:
Will that change the lateral deflection? They are all going in perfectly horizontal; just nock left on the fletched arrows. I'll try raising the nock height a tad and see if that makes a difference. With cock feather in, though, none of them should be hitting the shelf. Worth a try. I'll yell loud and clear if it changes things. Otherwise, I'll just accept as a crazy natural phenomenon that's beyond my understanding. Or maybe avoid shooting at 15 yards?

The fact that the bareshaft is flying straight and the fletched are kicking nock left tells me you have contact.. I'd guess that it is the back of the arrow bouncing off the shelf.. Take a look at the rest pad.. is it wearing at the lead or in at the high point.. is there feather residue on the pad?

But one thing is for sure... something is upseting your fletched arrows and not your bareshafts.. If you're sure the arrows are straight, and the nocks fit the serving.. then the difference almost has to be contact..
One tip.. if bare shaft tuning for nock height it is important to start at 10 feet or so and the target must be at shoulder height..

Bladepeek · October 02, 2011, 08:54:00 PM

Javi, now that makes sense even to me. I'll take a closer look at the pad. Also, the bare shaft testing was done at a greater distance and shooting somewhat downward. You may have saved my sanity here.
Thanks,
Ron