Fletching jigs and accuracy and feathers

Pepper · March 24, 2011, 10:35:00 AM

Sounds like he needed excuses for his difficulties.
Bitz makes a tool that when set will set a hundred jigs to the same off set.
Work hard, ask questions, some times there are several opinions on a question, but they are opinions, not neccessarily fact.
A lot of what we do is fact, a lot is trial and error. It is all a learning process, no one has all the answers, but some have a great deal of knowledge to pass on, and what you derive from them is up to you.
You seem to have a pretty good grasp on what is and isn't worth listening to.
Good luck.

Jason R. Wesbrock · March 24, 2011, 11:34:00 AM

I can't comment on the LW/RW thing. It's a new one to me. But I certainly wouldn't disparage him over the advice about using a single fletching jig. That's been standard advice from a lot of top-end shooters for a long time.

In reality, can anyone here shoot the difference? Not likely. At worst, that piece of advice falls into the same category as telling someone that arrows with .001 straightness are more consistent than those with .003 -- technically correct, but outside the scope of the shooter's ability. So while his advice may have been somewhat misplaced, at least it wasn't detrimental, which is more than I can say for a lot of the advice I've read on various message boards over the years.

TWarrows · March 24, 2011, 11:35:00 AM

Ok this guy is killing me...spin drift in a rifle bullit is what this so called expert is trying to bring to archery..and it just dont fly..I call myself a good archer and with trad. bow and great matched arrows I MAY shoot a 3foot group on a good day at 60 yards so I just cant really see that my spin drift is my problem...But hey maybe I can use that next time I miss at 30 yards..SPIN DRIFT fairy got me...LOL

Rob DiStefano · March 24, 2011, 12:02:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:
I can't comment on the LW/RW thing. It's a new one to me. But I certainly wouldn't disparage him over the advice about using a single fletching jig. That's been standard advice from a lot of top-end shooters for a long time.

In reality, can anyone here shoot the difference? Not likely. At worst, that piece of advice falls into the same category as telling someone that arrows with .001 straightness are more consistent than those with .003 -- technically correct, but outside the scope of the shooter's ability. So while his advice may have been somewhat misplaced, at least it wasn't detrimental, which is more than I can say for a lot of the advice I've read on various message boards over the years.

it always boils down to practical context. there is a chasm's worth of difference 'tween real all bow targeteers and trad bow hunters. no hunter will be ill served by using more than one jig to fletch up a dozen broadheads. true target tackle, particularly of the fita kind, is vastly different than hunting gear, and rightly so. for the most part, the character in question spouting his sage fletch advice is the real anomaly since he's obviously in la-la target archery land and hunter's need that perspective like ticks up their shorts.

njloco · March 24, 2011, 12:11:00 PM

Rob, " he's obviously in la-la target archery land and hunter's need that perspective like ticks up their shorts."

Javi · March 24, 2011, 12:16:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
since he's obviously in la-la target archery land and hunter's need that perspective like ticks up their shorts.

You mean that you can't be both...

almost every target shooter I know in this country is first and foremost a hunter..

Rob DiStefano · March 24, 2011, 12:24:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Javi:

QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
since he's obviously in la-la target archery land and hunter's need that perspective like ticks up their shorts.
You mean that you can't be both... almost every target shooter I know in this country is first and foremost a hunter.. [/b]

please, don't get me started about "target archery". there is a difference where hunting is concerned, and you betcha you can be both.

"target archery", as a void to fill when not hunting - who doesn't get into that at one point or another?

but then there's Real Serious Target Archery, where things get downright technical if not voodoo alchemy borderline insane, particularly with gear. been there, done that for 20+ years, ain't ever going back. i'm a trad bowhunter and proud of it, not a competitively serious paper/foamie puncher. to each their own, it's all good if yer havin' fun.

Ragnarok Forge · March 24, 2011, 12:26:00 PM

Me thinks the lively blighter has been hitting the rum to hard.

Wind would be a likely cause of arrow drift at 60 yards.

Drink up me hearties YO HO!

I tend to overthink and analyze things myself, but this guy makes me look normal. He is way out on the fringe of reality on this one. I wish I could shoot a bow accurately enough to see a difference. That and shoot a bow bow fast enough to obtain spin drift. She would shoot flat for sure.

Javi · March 24, 2011, 12:28:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:

QuoteOriginally posted by Javi:

QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
since he's obviously in la-la target archery land and hunter's need that perspective like ticks up their shorts.
You mean that you can't be both... almost every target shooter I know in this country is first and foremost a hunter.. [/b]
please, don't get me started about "target archery". there is a difference where hunting is concerned, and you betcha you can be both.

"target archery", as a void to fill when not hunting - who doesn't get into that at one point or another?

but then there's Real Serious Target Archery, where things get downright technical if not voodoo alchemy borderline insane, particularly with gear. been there, done that for 20+ years, ain't ever going back. i'm a trad bowhunter and proud of it, not a competitively serious paper/foamie puncher. to each their own, it's all good if yer havin' fun. [/b]

been there myself, I shot Pro for several years until a shoulder took me out of the game.. But I still consider myself a target shooter who started and ended as a hunter..

I can't shoot well enough any more to notice but I've seen 3 grains make a big difference in POI at 90 meters, of course I don't worry about that at 20 yards..

One has to be practical in one's approach to tuning but it never hurts to know stuff.. Being a hunter and being uneducated does not necessarily have to be synonymous.

joe skipp · March 24, 2011, 12:49:00 PM

Jason R. Wesbrock · March 24, 2011, 12:53:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Javi:

QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
since he's obviously in la-la target archery land and hunter's need that perspective like ticks up their shorts.
You mean that you can't be both... almost every target shooter I know in this country is first and foremost a hunter.. [/b]

Well put. Those two worlds are far from mutually exclusive.

Rob DiStefano · March 24, 2011, 01:18:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:

QuoteOriginally posted by Javi:

QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
since he's obviously in la-la target archery land and hunter's need that perspective like ticks up their shorts.
You mean that you can't be both... almost every target shooter I know in this country is first and foremost a hunter.. [/b]
Well put. Those two worlds are far from mutually exclusive. [/b]

i contend they are, and for good reasons that anyone can readily see at any event where targeteers and bowhunters toe the line. if you don't understand the difference, you don't understand competitive archery.

this is NOT to say that consistent accuracy is ever second best for a hunter. however, the approach, methodologies and perhaps tackle will be different because targets don't have brains.

fred's latest book should be required reading for all.

Ragnarok Forge · March 24, 2011, 01:30:00 PM

I am gonna agree with Rob on this one.

Last weekend I went to a 3D shoot at our local club and shot with a group of traditional archers. 3 of us were hunters and were shooting stick and string with heavy arrows. The fourth shooter was shooting a FITA bow with 6.2 GPP arrows flying at 214 fps. Needless to say he was putting us all to shame.

Now the FITA shooter is a hunter and is a wonderful guy. Lots of fun, humorous, and always good for a great conversation. I love shooting with him. Needless to say he doesn't hunt with his very loud FITA bow. He does compete with it since he likes to place well or win.

Pure target archers don't seem to shoot really well when they have to crouch, lean hard, or lay down to take a hunting shot. Lots of hunter can make these shots with ease. Different tackle, different mind set, different shooting positions. Lots of nuances in this but I agree they are different animals. Good form is vital to both.

longbowman · March 24, 2011, 01:30:00 PM

Back when I owned an archery shop & indoor lanes I had the PA state champion indoor shooter shooting in a weekly league and this topic came up. He proceeded to take 3 arrows of the same spine but one with 2" straight/no offset vanes, one with straight and offset 4" vanes and one of his hunting arrows with 5" full helical and offset vanes and shot 5 points under his own state record for the night. Feathers are even more forgiving so I think this is a bit off.

Rob DiStefano · March 24, 2011, 01:32:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Ragnarok Forge:
I am gonna agree with Rob on this one.

Last weekend I went to a 3D shoot at our local club and shot with a group of traditional archers. 3 of us were hunters and were shooting stick and string with heavy arrows. The fourth shooter was shooting a FITA bow with 6.2 GPP arrows flying at 214 fps. Needless to say he was putting us all to shame.

Now the FITA shooter is a hunter and is a wonderful guy. Lots of fun, humorous, and always good for a great conversation. I love shooting with him. Needless to say he doesn't hunt with his very loud FITA bow. He does compete with it since he likes to place well or win.

Pure target archers don't seem to shoot really well when they have to crouch, lean hard, or lay down to take a hunting shot. Lots of hunter can make these shots with ease. Different tackle, different mind set, different shooting positions. Lots of nuances in this but I agree they are different animals. Good form is vital to both.

this is precisely my point, thank you.

Jason R. Wesbrock · March 24, 2011, 01:34:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:

QuoteOriginally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:

QuoteOriginally posted by Javi:

quote:
Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:
since he's obviously in la-la target archery land and hunter's need that perspective like ticks up their shorts.
You mean that you can't be both... almost every target shooter I know in this country is first and foremost a hunter.. [/b]
Well put. Those two worlds are far from mutually exclusive. [/b]
if you don't understand the difference, you don't understand competitive archery.

All of the state and sectional championship plaques on my wall talked it over with the dead animals in my freezer. They think I understand it just fine.

Javi · March 24, 2011, 01:37:00 PM

Stumpkiller · March 24, 2011, 01:47:00 PM

While in college I was shooting a Howatt Catalina target recurve with a single pin and a Bear Kodiak (sightless) at home. Two totally different styles. I do have a more upright stance than most, but not all, instinctive shooters. But I can and do vary my stance and bow cant to the situations.

The guys who have a totally closed stance, use a lifted bow arm "target address" and come down on an anchor may have trouble in a tree or under branches . . . or within sight of a deer. I always considered the folks who point the arrow at a target/game before drawing to be using a target technique - but I see a lot of trad bowhunters doing that.

And if you have to run out and put an orange dot on a target before coming back to shoot . . . that's latent targetism.

Grey Taylor · March 24, 2011, 01:57:00 PM

Holy cow! I sign on and I've got 3 pages of responses. Thanks everyone for your feedback on this.
I had already decided this fellow was a little out there but I've been wrong before so I wanted to see what folks here had to say.
I used to use one jig for a set of arrows but another archer I know who is a great shot told me I was wasting my time and only a really extraordinary archer would be able to tell the difference. I made the mistake of saying that to the fellow in question and he looked at me and kind of buffed his fingernails on his shirt and said, "so, what's your point, I am good." Yeah, there's some ego involved here

Thanks, folks. I really apprecite your thoughts on this.

Guy