.400 Spine Too Weak For 45lbs @ 31"?

[gonefishing600]

Originally posted by Mike Gerardi:
If that's the case with A&H bows needing stiffer shaft, what shafts do people that shoot 60lb A&H use?  340 spine on a 46lb bow seems crazy. I couldnt get 340 eastons to tune to my 61lb recurve.

.250

[DanielB89]

I always have to shoot stiffer than usual arrows out of my bows.  It may be a false reading, etc, but its the only thing I can do to get perfect flight with broadheads and fieldtips.  

I have a thunderchild that is 52@28 and i draw to 29.5.  I have to shoot .350 spined arrows.  They are full length with 200 grain field tips and they fly like darts, naked and fletched!

[olddogrib]

I'm with you Bisch. Most of the recurves I've ever owned (predominantly Morrisons)were cut 3/16ths past center. I've never owned nor shot an ACS, but Bob used the design in his limbs for awhile. All have been in the 46-50# range and there's not one of them that that a .400/125gr. arrow wouldn't be too stiff for. Full length shafts usually required 200 grains or more for me to tame.  Your mileage may vary.

[gonefishing600]

If you have never owned or shot an A&H/ACS bow, you have to read this artical by DR. Ashby.

  http://www.acsbows.com/ashbyarticle.html

[grayfeather]

well if you can not get it to tune , then you really have a problem .I have had 2 a&h bows . I can shoot a lot of arrows out of them .You did not say what arrows you use . gold tip 500 are 465 spine ,Easton spine better when new .did you spine your arrows . I have shot 15-35,35-55 gold tips no problem .

[old_goat2]

Originally posted by grayfeather:
well if you can not get it to tune , then you really have a problem .I have had 2 a&h bows . I can shoot a lot of arrows out of them .You did not say what arrows you use . gold tip 500 are 465 spine ,Easton spine better when new .did you spine your arrows . I have shot 15-35,35-55 gold tips no problem .

What's your draw length????

[katman]

Riser cut well past center, 31" draw and 32" shaft and both .500 and .400 fly weak bareshaft. If the .500 are hitting right of the .400 sounds like you need .340 spine.

[redshedbowhunter]

I am a long draw as well. I have found that with my recurve I can get a shaft to tune and with my longbow (same maker) I get funky flight.  For me it comes down to a form issue, but I think we long draws put a lot of flex into our bows and arrows when things are not just right.  This however is my story and maybe not yours.  I went down a trail of bareshaft tuning with others thinking erratic flight might just be a stiff arrow. (I have a 51# @31" Holmmade Goshawk bow that is 66" shooting 400 spine Beman Centershots that are 31.5" with 75gr inserts and 125 gr tips).  This is a 3/16 from center bow.  I shoot these same arrows bullet like out of my recurve by the same maker with very near the same specs.  I tried light tips, other weak arrows, than those, and I tried 200gr tips (so with insertes that would be 275 up front)

I really have tried everything to limit tears, but for me when I had perfect form and probably better release the arrow flew better.  I finally for myself knew that I have to leave it at decent flight.  A man by the name Arne Moe who haunts around on here has said to me that with my long draw and my own personal form issues (he has seen me shoot) may with some bows have arrow flight issues.  Am I or you a bad archer...probably not.  I think there are just some bows, arrows and archers that give fits.

[acedoc]

i have limited bow shooting experience and only recently started shooting so here is my take (for what its worth)
i have a long draw 31.5 in or so. i use 340 spine beman ics full length and a brass insert from 3 rivers with a 125 grain tip. all my shafts showed slight nock left. i use a trinity falcon takedown which is 53 lbs or so at my draw. i have set the brace height low at around 6.5 - 6.75 inches. the remedies suggested by the maker are increasing brace height to 7.5- 8 inches and reducing the arrow rest / shelf plate protrusion.
i think bracing the bow high will sort out the issue as the arrow will be off the string earlier.
only reason i have not done it is the fact that i have been hitting pretty much what i have been aiming at and don't want to muck it up.
i have to remember to focus on form and release right.

[katman]

Reread Big Jim'post, good info there, If your adjusting for a weak shaft and it gets worse not better probably a false reading. Still think you need 340's

What shaft are you shooting I may have one I can send.

[Leafwalker]

It may seem crazy how stiff your arrows are, but that's what I've experienced as well.  I've found that the spine softens up quickly with a longer arrow.  I've got about the same setup and here's what I'm using.

My recurve is 45# @ 30".  I'm using a 340 Beman Centershot (full length, 31.5" I believe) with the 80-grain insert and a 125gr point.  It bareshafts perfectly at 20 yards and paper tunes bullet holes at 10 feet.

To give another example, I've had people tell me that my next setup is too stiff, but again, bareshafts and paper tunes perfectly.  Here are the stats.

The recurve is 34# @ 30".  I'm using 2213 Easton XX75 arrows, full length (32.5") with 125gr points.

The arrow spine charts always recommend a weaker arrow, so I always start tuning with the spine above what is recommended.

[cloudbaseracer]

Originally posted by katman:
Reread Big Jim'post, good info there, If your adjusting for a weak shaft and it gets worse not better probably a false reading. Still think you need 340's

What shaft are you shooting I may have one I can send.

I have tried 500 Carbon Express Maxima Blue and 400 Easton Superlight.  These both shot point right.

For the past 6 or 7 years I have shot Gold Tip and I have a ton of them but they are all 29" or 30" and .400 or .500.  

My draw length went from 28" to 31.25" after I took Rod Jenkins shooting clinic.  That caused me to switch from a 50 lbs  at 28" ACS to a 37 lbs @ 28" to give me 45 lbs at 31".

I always felt  like this bow could shoot anything and had great results or so it seemed.  The arrows were always fletched so I never really saw any problems.  .500 and .400 ll looked fine.

I really don't want to buy more arrows and go to .340 or .300.

[Jakeemt]

Yep 31 inch draw a a pretty substantial power stroke! Why not trace them bet there is somebody around who would swap you for your 500 or 400's and big Jim a has super good deals on blems right now.

[DesertDude]

Bottom line, don't go by numbers go by Your results only.  I have always needed a stiffer spine.  Go with what tunes perfectly for you and your shooting style".......

[katman]

"I really don't want to buy more arrows and go to .340 or .300" "The arrows were always fletched so I never really saw any problems" Does not mean they were not there.

3 1/4" draw length increase is a lot more expansion. I gained 1 3/4" after Rod's class a few years back.

Shoot field tip and broadhead tipped arrows and see were they group out to 30 yds, if they group on target great, if not I think you need to try .340. You may not want to buy new arrows but selling off the shorter ones you can not use due to increase in draw length will help offset price. I can send you a bareshaft .340 axis with 100gr brass hit insert full length if you would like, really curios to get to the bottom of this. PM your address if interested.

Also could try a test kit of arrows,  http://search.3riversarchery.com/buy/arrows-shafting/arrow-shafting/carbon-shafting

[cloudbaseracer]

Katman,

PM will be coming to you. Thanks!!

Well, the increase is because I "learned" to shoot 25 years ago with the Asbel method.  I think that has done more harm than good in the world of traditional hunting archery.  That hunched over style is power robbing and not as consistent.

[katman]

I had same thing happen to me, thank the heavens I took Rod's class.

Originally posted by katman:
3 1/4" draw length increase is a lot more expansion. I gained 1 3/4" after Rod's class a few years back.

WOW! That is exactly what I was thinking! I gained about 1 1/2" of DL after attending Rod's clinic. 3 1/4" is almost mind boggling!!!

Good luck getting your arrow tuning down!

Bisch

[Archie]

Two comments here...

First, I have a long draw, and find that I have some weird spine issues when tuning.  Shafts do tend to show weaker than they should be.

Second, I had an ACS bow for several months, and I did not find it astronomically different than others.  Nice bow, for sure.  But if they are so hyper-powerful, how is it that we haven't been reading this all along in threads on TradGang?  I've been a member for several years, and this is the first time I remember anyone saying that the ACS requires special tuning considerations.

[Biathlonman]

Listen to the bow.  I've got a #51 that like 340s and a #53 that likes 200 grains on a 2016.  Same maker of bow and strings.  It doesn't make sense but they both flat shoot when tuned!