Pepper Spray for Bears and Large Kitties??

[Orion]

I started carrying it on my western hunts a few years ago.  Doesn't weigh much and, IMO, it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.  

I haven't been to Alaska in more than 10 years and I wasn't aware of the Counter Assault spray then.  If I had been, I definitely would have had some.  Most folks are notoriously poor shots with pistols, particularly large caliber pistols, and particularly when a bear is bearing down on them. What I've heard since is that some,not all, bush pilots don't want it inside the plane, for fear that it might go off.  However, the mechanism controlling the spray is pretty foolproof, and I haven't heard of any such accidents/occurences.  Regardless, if the pilot doesn't want it in the plane,  tape the container to a wing strut.

[BrownA5]

Thanks all for the input.  As always, you all are great about sharing insight/knowledge/ experiences.  This isn't my first time in bear country, but it will be my first time packing bear spray!

[Kevin Dill]

I'm still wending my way home from another Alaska hunt. I'll try to find time to demonstrate a couple situations where spray could have been used and what would have likely happened....just about 9 days ago.

[Frenchymanny]

Originally posted by eidsvolling:
For those unfamiliar with bear spray products, here's a handy compilation from the EPA. My choice for many years has been the first one listed here:
   Bear Deterrents  

Thanks eidsvolling

F-Manny

[JohnV]

I would be reluctant to substitute bee/wasp spray for bear spray.  Bee/wasp spray uses pesticides as the active ingredient while bear spray uses capsaicin, the hot stuff in peppers.  I am not aware of any studies that have been conducted to determine the effectiveness of bee/wasp spray to stop a charging bear.  "Cheaper cost" is the last thing I am thinking about if a bear is charging me!  It is against federal regulations to carry bear spray in either carry-on or checked baggage on commercial airlines.

[Bjorn]

The bear spray I have used releases a thick cloud of stuff about the size of a refrigerator at 15-20 feet and it comes out with some force. That's way more effective than wasp spray where some accuracy is needed. I am sure it works on momma moose too, which I consider as dangerous as bears.................as for mountain lions the first hint you are going to get is this 150 pound fur coat you are wearing. Cabela's sells serious bear spray. One more thing; practice with the spray but not in your basement!    

[CDK]

I have always had Couunter Assault brand bear spray...that is what was used when I worked for the USFS a couple of summers.
however now I have another brand as well and that would be UDA P and the reason being I like ther holster  it is made of a stretchy material and you can shoot from the holster. UDAP had a training simulator set up in Ennis Montana a couple of weeks ago and after practicing on that I really like the holster . I think most people do not realize how fast bears are when they charge...you have to have the container where you can get your hand on it instantly and be spraying muy pronto!!

[OregonTom]

I just bring a 1911 loaded with FMJ.  If you are in Brown Bear country spring for a .44mag revolver.

[kevsuperg]

Idfg Investigating Scene Of Incident Involving Archery Hunter And Grizzly Bear In Island Park

An archery hunter was attacked by a sow grizzly bear while hunting in the Caribou-Targhee National Forest in the vicinity of Yale Creek near Sawtell Peak Monday morning August 31. The archer sustained injuries to his hand and wrist, but hiked out under his own power and was transported by ambulance to Madison County Hospital in Rexburg.

The hunter reportedly was carrying bear spray but apparently couldn't access it when the attack occurred. He tried to shoot the bear several times with a .44 magnum revolver pistol at point-blank range. Idaho Department of Fish and Game personnel are heading to the area of the incident to access the situation and try and determine the condition of the grizzly, who the hunter says had three cubs with her.

In the case of such incidents involving attacks on humans by wildlife, Fish and Game has a special cadre of professionals called the WHART Team (Wildlife Human Attack Response Team) trained and equipped to rapidly respond to such situations.

Further information regarding the incident will be released as information becomes available.

[Kevin Dill]

I own and use both...spray and firearms as I think the situation might warrant. I think spray has its place, but has more limits to use than a firearm. Sticking an index finger through the ring, then cleanly deploying the canister from the floppy holster (holder really), then thumbing-off the safety device while dealing with the anxiety of an incoming grizzly is not something most guys can do quickly. Given the element of surprise, I'd wager most guys...myself included...can't be on-target in under 5 seconds in any surprise attack. That basically means any bear coming hard from less than 50 yards will be on the man before the can is in use.

Then there is the one-and-done aspect. Go on a ten day hunt and if you need to use the spray once, you'll be without it unless you carry multiples which I have personally never seen. In serious grizzly areas you may well have multiple sightings and encounters on an extended hunt. I would not feel adequately protected knowing I had five days left to hunt amongst bears and maybe 4 ounces of spray left in a can.

Most guys rely on the odds: they won't even see or face an aggressive grizzly. That's a good thing. I've had a couple grizzly encounters (as has a friend of mine) and we both have agreed that it usually happens FAST and there is almost always the element of disbelief or shock at what you are seeing. It's one thing to sit at home and plan your reaction; something entirely different when it's you and one bear coming in fast.

[Cavscout9753]

As an aside: I've done numerous (4 years total) of raids and patrols in Iraq. IEDs, snipers, mortars, rockets, you name it I've ducked, dipped, and dodged it. But I simply can not for the life of me fathom how some of you manage to screw a pair on and walk (often at night or dark) around alone in the mountains and bush of the west, Alaska, and the like. Mountain lions, brown and grizzly bears, moose... I can imagine situations of failure for both guns and spray. My hats off to ya'll. maybe one day I'll get out there and see it, until then - just the idea of a massive angry bear charging down on me makes me sweat.

[Montanawidower]

Couple of thoughts...

I was demonstrating proper use of spray to my wife about 15 years ago and deployed a small burst from a can.   A gentle breeze blew some back at me and rendered me blind, moaning, and helpless.  (to the great amusement of my wife     )

I stopped carrying it for several years after that and carried only my .44.

I was charged at close range by a huge boar, that ended up running right by me.   I froze and didn't even unholster my weapon.....  Luckily the "charge" was really just the bear breaking into a bluff run by me.  But it left me feeling a little flat footed and underprepared.  Also, had I killed that bear, it would have been wrong.  He was not attacking, just bluffing.  

Recently I have gone back to carrying both.... The research and numbers just don't lie.   But many of the reasons for both are well spelled out by Kevin.  

1)We are way back in grizzly country for multiple day hunts. Seeing a grizzly is a very real possibility.  Also, these are not your fat, happy, fish eating alaska bears.  These are the snarling survivors, that scratch an existence living partly on moths and robbing squirrels.  I.e. they have a hungry belly and a chip on their shoulders.  

2) Some times in camp a weapon is the right tool for warning or a long range deterent.  

3)  I like the idea of spray first...  shoot him off me if need be.  

Jeff

[Kevin Dill]

Just a few days ago...

I had carried the first of two packloads approximately a mile in and 800' up into a treeless mountain pass. I sat down to have a quick lunch. 15 minutes later I looked east and was astounded to see a big honey-colored grizzly coming my way at something like 1/8 mile. The 20 mph wind was blowing easterly...from the bear to me...and he had no clue. Unfortunately he chose a track destined to put him right in my lap. Having just buzzed the pass 2 hours earlier and having no reason to believe there was a grizz within ten miles, my handgun was a mile away. I had a single canister of UDAP. I pulled it, knowing the 20 mph headwind was not good.

When the bear got in under 100 yards I knew it was time to act. I clicked the safety off (from canister, stood up and coarsely yelled at the bear. Over the next minute he studied me and seemed to want to investigate before giving up. I didn't like the wind and knew it was trouble. I kept yelling and bluffing, circling a bit to the right in case it might help with the wind. Finally I showed him the can with the big white letters 'UDAP' on it and he instantly busted his tail getting off the mountain and down into the alders. (okay...I exaggerated that part about the letters...       )

If that bear had pressed the issue I would have gotten as much pepper as he did, and probably disabled myself.

[kevsuperg]

You would have made a delicious pepper steak dinner for him. Glad you made it out OK.

[akdd]

I have been bluff charged by a grizzly from about 30 yards and things happen fast. All I had time to do from the time I first saw the bear until he was at 10' woofing and  popping his teeth was holler at him. I would not have had time to get off a shot with either bear spray or a pistol if I would have had it in my hand. And yes most pilots in AK will not allow bear spray inside their airplane due to if it accidentally discharged thing would be bad.

[Kevin Dill]

Originally posted by kevsuperg:
You would have made a delicious pepper steak dinner for him.

I think my hams would have needed some cleaning...

The other incident happened 2 days later. I was in the tent around 9:30 am due to terrible fog and rain...couldn't hunt. I heard a peculiar repetitive whine approaching the camp and so quickly grabbed my handgun. In just a few seconds whatever was approaching had made it just outside the tent. I was debating whether to sit quietly or make big-time noise and hope for the best. I sat quietly and figured if the tent bulged inward I would ventilate that spot instantly with a hard-cast slug. Suddenly 'it' huffed 2 or 3 times and hurried away. I cautiously unzipped the door and peered out to see a darker colored grizzly loping away.

I've always said that I spend 1/3 of every Alaskan trip inside a tent, and there is no pepper spray which will penetrate fabric. I could only employ it after allowing a bear to ignore the 'Do Not Enter' sign. No thanks. I'm not waiting for a bear to create a spray hole. I didn't want to shoot that bear, but I would have quickly done just that. The weather was so bad (for days in fact) that an evac would have been near-impossible. Allowing that bear to tear up my tent or injure me could have had dire consequences. He might have been just being a bear investigating camp, but his response may have saved both our lives.

People might disagree with me on this, but I won't sleep well thinking I have only pepper spray which is almost no defense at all inside a tent.

[kevsuperg]

I'll be moving to north on idaho at the end of this month.
 Seriously considering a S&W .500
 I've been told my .44 will only make them mad.
 Don't think my recurve will be much help either.

[K.S.TRAPPER]

When I used to carry spray for bears you need to read the labels, some are no good or not as good below freezing temperatures.

Maybe they have changed or gotten better I don't know but there never the same if they freeze. The type I used anyway and they were the large type cans and holsters.

Tracy

[Pointer]

The area I have been hunting for the past several years is loaded with bears. Ran into a Conservation Officer who saw my can of UDAP an thought it was a great idea. Last season I accidentally still hunted my way to within 75 yards or so of a huge sow with a cub. I admit that I had my doubts in that moment that the spray would be of much help. Thankfully I didn't have to find out as she and I were both walking with the wind in our favor. She never saw me as I slipped away from behind her and her cub.

The spray may be effective but I can tell you first hand that the wind is definitely a factor. I bought a new can last season and decided I should practice a little with the old one so I went into the back yard and sprayed it into some bushes in the corner. The breeze was so light I didn't give it a second thought. Could barely discern the direction it was blowing...barely even feel it. I was accurate with it at 15 feet but some of the mist drifted back to me and I immediately couldn't see. Not a good thing with a bear in the equation. I could definitely see the argument for wanting a handgun along

[stagetek]

Kevin, you've made great points for carrying both.