Arrow weight vs speed

[jmar595]

So, I bareshafted the arrows I have been shooting forever. Never had before. The nocks kicked way right, so I saw that I was was overspined. I got 3555 (I had been shootinng full length 5575 with 125gr points) full length and bareshafted it. I adjusted the point weight and a little nock point adjusting and they are flying stright now.
The thing is, most of my arrows are 5575. So I went to the archery store and got some 50 gr weights for the inserts and some 225 gr points. I shot a bare 5575 there and it flew pretty straight ( havent got to get out too far with it yet). That setup comes up to 648 gr. The 3555 are 370 gr. The 5575 come to 14 gr per lb., and the 3555 come to 8 gr per lb.
I chronoed them also, the 5575 flew at 146 fps, and the 3555 flew at 154 fps. I have b50 string on a Browning Nomad Stalker.
Would this speed difference and weight difference amount o much in the way of penetration? If so, is it a lot or negligable?
Also how much difference would fastflight string make, and would it be advisable to string a Nomad Stalker with it?
Thanks for any help, seems I'm finally starting to get things a bit more tuned up after all this time.

[bowhuntingrn]

A fast flight string would probably make up the difference (or close to it) between the 2 setups. As to whether or not it would be advisable, I doubt it. I will however leave that to those with more knowledge than I. On to my main point. In my honest opinion, if I added 278 grains and only lost 8 feet per second... I would definitely go for the heavier setup. Those 8 fps are going to be pretty much a non issue at what most would consider "hunting ranges" and I have to believe you would get far better penetration with the heavier setup. Not to mention it's probably going to make for a much quieter bow that is going to have less hand shock. Just my .02

[jmar595]

Hadn't even thought of the noise or handshock issues. the Stalker doesn't have much hand shock to speak of but could always use less noise.
I am taking my son to the annual surprise Monster Jam show tomorrow, but am really anxious to continue this tuning until its right on. I want to go to a 3d shoot Feb 15th, would be cool to have it all setup to get some real practice in.

[damascusdave]

The generic term Fastflight has very little meaning when I comes to determining velocity...there can be quite a bit of difference in the velocity you will get with an overbuilt D97 string vs. a well built string with BCY-X for example...nock fit can even have some effect on velocity...I am not familiar with the Browning Nomad Stalker but as long as it has some sort of reasonable overlays on the tips I would think a 24 strand BCY-X string would work rather nicely...I use BCY-X strings on all of my 1960 Kodiaks including the Deluxe which many would claim should not be shot at all

DDave

[Hud]

Laminate some cardboard, or styrofoam and see if there is a difference at 15 yds or whatever you are comfortable with.

[Tajue17]

I'd opt for the heavier setup even go a bit heavier to get those 55/75s to spine perfect which is even better penetration but if your feathers get wet it still going to fly good PLUS use any broadhead you want with a well tuned arrow.

like above said the bow should feel better,,,,, I'd look into a 10 strand high performance string I love the SBD's but make sure the loops are padded and with SBD's if you get them with the silencers installed they are very quiet,, but you will gain 1/2 of that speed back which isn't really about speed its more for the flatter trajectory!

[ranger 3]

The Browning Nomad Stalker may not be FF safe, depends on how old it is.

[Krex1010]

I don't think 8fps would really make a noticeable difference in trajectory until you got past 25-30 yards. a straighter flying arrow will probably do more for penetration than adding or subtracting a few grains or fps imo.

[jimboby]

What is your bow draw weight and your draw length?  The huge variance in arrow weights don't make sense to me.  The 5575 shouldnt be that heavy and the 3555 shouldn't be that light.

[kennym]

Originally posted by jimboby:
What is your bow draw weight and your draw length?  The huge variance in arrow weights don't make sense to me.  The 5575 shouldnt be that heavy and the 3555 shouldn't be that light.

I'm with Jim, and the fps difference should be much greater with that much diff in arrow weight.

[jmar595]

I did some reading on Dr. Ashby's report last night. It has loads of good information.
I am shooting a 44# @ 28" bow, I draw to 29. I figure that is 46#.
I thought for sure that the speed difference would be much greater also, that's why I tried them out at the archery store. I was surprised by the difference.
My wife bought those arrows online, and I was trying to see if the store would exchange them for 3555. When they wouldn't, I wanted to see if I could make the 5575's work.
I am kinda glad they did not. Dr Ashy's report says that penetration is more about the mass of the arrow (combined with a good cut on contact 2 blade broadhead) than speed.
Hopefully I will get a chance today to fling some of them and do a little more adjusting. I am curious to see them fly a little farther out. I was only able to shoot at 5yds at the store.

[njloco]

Depending on your draw length, both arrow set ups are over spined for a 46.25 pound set up.

What is you draw length ?

O,k that question is answered.

You should be fine with 3555's, how heavy of an arrow does one need for deer, assuming your hunting deer. All due respect, 5575's make no sense, way too heavy a spine and, you'll fined that out when you start shooting 3D. If you put enough weight on the front of a light spear, you'll be able to shoot that too.

I doubt that you can use ff string on that bow.

You need more weight up front on the 3555's. You shouldn't have any trouble getting the arrow up to 9-10 gr per pound.

P.S. excellent looking form in your avatar.

[jmar595]

I draw to 29". I did a little balance test and the 5575 balance point moved forward almost 4.5" with the heavier weight.
I will definitely get a better string. The string I have on it now is a Flemish I have had on it for a while now. Will be curious to see the difference. I checked out the sbd website, good possibility.

[kennym]

8gpp should beat 154fps, did the chrono have a light kit on it? That will mess with the reading if the lighting isn't just right.

[jmar595]

I don't know if it did. That is the first time I've shot through one.

[kennym]

The light kit is just a cardboard sheet made with a long bulb in it that gives diffused light to the chrony.  Otherwise they have a flat plastic arc on the rods coming out of it on top.

[jmar595]

was the plastic arc. Would that make that much difference?

[damascusdave]

So it appears the Nomad Stalker is a 52 inch bow...that is not a classic bow length to use with a 29 inch draw...on the other hand Bear approved the use of their 1962 Kodiak Magnum for up to 31 inch draw...I only draw my 1962 KMag to 30 inches because it stacks so much...it is the marked 45 pounds at 28 inches and is a full 55 pounds at 30 inches...so your bow could easily be gaining 5 pounds in that extra inch...the only way to tell is with a reliable scale...the bow should have been designed by Harry Drake and I cannot imagine that the tips would not be fine with a 21 to 24 strand BCY-X string, with the caution of course that Browning may never have intended those bows to be drawn to 29 inches...bowyers of that era would most certainly have used lower stretch strings had the material been available...that will create another issue though in that you may have trouble getting the 35/55 (.500 spine) arrows stiff enough at 30 inches with reasonable FOC....the other thing you have not told us is how many shots you put across the chronograph...sometimes I find I have to shoot 10 arrows to get 3 good shots to average which is why I only use the Chrony when I am feeling very patient...3 shots is an absolute minimum to get a reliable average, 5 or 10 would be much better especially if you do not have someone checking your actual draw length...do a little reading on peteward.com if you want to understand more about getting reliable chronograph data with a finger release...Pete and Pat have been doing it for a long time and I am sure he still throws out some of his readings

DDave

[kennym]

If used indoors, yes...

[jmar595]

Ok, so with some outdoor testing and tickering I think I have a pretty close setup. I took off the big 225 gr point and  changed the insert weights to 2, and put on a 125 gr point. Those come pretty close. I was amazed at first how much they do drop like rocks. Like shooting flu flus. I think this is pretty close now.
I only have a kitchen scale so the grains are not totally accurate, but they are coming out to 37 grams, which is 570 grains. They do go a little slower but not overly so. I thing that was strange is that they tended to be louder than the 3555.
I started out with a bare 3555 full length with 125 gr point and a fletched one the same. Then I had a bare 5575 with a 50 grain weight and a 225 gr point, and a fletched one the same. I shot both the 3555 then the 5575. The 3555 are much flatter, but I think for a goo hunting setup I will go with the 5575. I changed the 5575 to 100gr of insert weight and a 125gr point. I will add a pic of the last group at around 10 yards. They grouped nicely.
Next thing is the string.