Short bows? really? don't you want more?

**DONOTDELETE** · December 02, 2014, 11:45:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by riverrat 2:
I love longbows bro. I love LONG R/D longbows. I feel there are some nice ones out there that would be great to own if they were LONGER. See.
It's not a silly thread. What a joke! I put the "dead horse thing" up because the whole point seems lost. But now I know they can't be made kirk. So...

What do you mean they can't be made? i believe you had several bowyers here including me that have said they CAN be made, and would be more than glad to do it.... Am i missing something here?

nineworlds9 · December 02, 2014, 11:55:00 PM

I've got an idea 'Rat,
you could have a 64" Centaur if you got yourself a 15" Dalaa DX5 riser and a set of Jim's ILF limbs in XXL. Just crank the preload up on them all the way to get the max energy out of them. OR grab a Dalaa 17 or 21 with XXL's and you could have up to a 70" bow. Again, you'd need to crank up the preload to make em hit max efficiency.

As for 1pc or 2pc bows, well some bowyers have the time to build the forms and do the r/d for a new model, others don't, so why force the issue? Like someone else said, a lot of it has to do with demand, and convincing the shorty lovers that they need a longer bow is like trying to convince a Corvette guy to trade in for a performance sedan. Though on a related note I will say Porsche does offer the 4-door Panamera as an alternative to the 911. Some guys like a Tacoma even if the Tundra guys don't get it.

I think this thread has ended up in something similar to what the movie industry calls 'development hell' LOL.

ejhorstick · December 03, 2014, 12:31:00 AM

Just throwing in my two cents...but I have really enjoyed following this thread. Much discussion of bow mechanics and of bow design, topics that I find fascinating. Anything regarding how the bowyers out there transform stick and string into functional masterpieces is something impressive to me.

And whether an individual's preference is the long or short of it, I believe we are benefited by the number of bowyers out there trying different designs to satisfy many of the demands of the hunter/hobbyist.

I for one am thrilled we have the diversity out there to choose from, as I do have a few primary "go to" bows in my stable, but enjoy shooting a range of bows from longbow to recurve, long or short, to radical or mild r/d....just for the challenge and enjoyment of traditional archery.

But like I said, just my two cents!

riverrat 2 · December 03, 2014, 04:52:00 AM

Great posts nine9 and ejhorstick. Nine9 I really did think about jumping on the ILF wagon again. But brother I just don't like fussing around with the gadgetry of them anymore. Thank you though. I agree with your point ejhorstick of talented bowyers out there trying different designs for our enjoyment/demands. KirkII..yes you are missing something. Here it is..I am saying that there are ALOT of awesome R/D designs out there that stop at 62"es or a lot less. I fully realize there are OTHER R/D's out there that go beyond that threshold. I own,or have owned many of them. HOWEVER,I personally really like a lot of Short bow designs,in there look/feel/shape department and still believe they could be made into at least 64" models without sacrificing to much. I mentioned a few,but can rattle off a dozen more if you need me to. I hope you get what I'm saying. Not trying to argue..honest. And I'm not "forcing" anything nine9. I am however vocalizing my and many other archers frustration of seeing a design that really looks fun to try/own and then realizing to own it you have to buy a short version cause that's what it is. You like short bows? that's fine. Would you like to see some of the tons of bows you have owned and sold off maybe longer? Would they possibly have benefited from that? Just would like to see a larger variety in that department is all. rat'

jt85 · December 03, 2014, 07:43:00 AM

I truly am enjoying this thread, I like hearing all the different thoughts on topics such as this. For those of us that have not been at this long it gives us something to think about and answers a lot of questions we may have. It's great to hear different opinions

Cyclic-Rivers · December 03, 2014, 07:43:00 AM

I like longbows and have made a few comments already but since this is still at the top, I would like to add what I am really thinking.....

I wish JD Berry and Steve Turray and other reputable long bow builders would make a super short Recurve. say 54" for us short bow fanatics... :eek: :rolleyes:

Ok, I admit, I'm trying to stir the pot. :p

riverrat 2 · December 03, 2014, 08:54:00 AM

Hermon · December 03, 2014, 08:58:00 AM

QuoteOriginally posted by Cyclic-Rivers:
I like longbows and have made a few comments already but since this is still at the top, I would like to add what I am really thinking.....

I wish JD Berry and Steve Turray and other reputable long bow builders would make a super short Recurve. say 54" for us short bow fanatics... :eek: :rolleyes:

Ok, I admit, I'm trying to stir the pot. :p

Mike Dunnaway of Wild Horse Creek Bows makes a 54" recurve, the "Mariah". Great shooting 50's style recurve.

Flatshooter · December 03, 2014, 11:16:00 AM

I agree with you Tippit. I'm the same height and love my 56" Thunderchild and 60" PSA. Both are easy to maneuver in a treestand and easy to carry in the woods. For some reason, I seem to shoot them better too!

mec lineman · December 03, 2014, 04:16:00 PM

Rat , I totally understand what you are saying! Looking at the bows you have mentioned,(i have owned them as well) it would do you justice to shoot a whippenstik, his r/d design is awesome and his shortest length= 64"

nineworlds9 · December 03, 2014, 06:04:00 PM

Cool deal 'rat, I totally get where you are coming from, and I agree about ILF- its really neat and fun to mess with but for me it just makes me obsess about the tuning and I figure why bother if I have a bolt down bow that works perfectly for me. I will say some folks just crank down a lighter set of limbs to the max and basically make it a bolt down if its a particular setup they like.

I guess what I was getting at is that to me its about design constraints. Some bowyers have the time and means to develop something that fills the niche...Gregg Coffey is currently perfecting a 60" Elkheart for example! It may well prove to be his most brilliant creation yet. And by 60" Elkheart I mean a bow that has the same riser length as a 56 or 58, but just with longer limbs. He tells me it will go to 33" and guess what the draw force curve for it I got to see proved it. So that is a successful development of what started as a short design being made longer. 60" isn't long as you're wanting, but its a big step for a bow (Elkheart) that is typically ordered/offered in 56". The best part is the 60" will still shoot beautifully at even 27 or 28". Gregg's done good and I know if I add a second Elkheart to the stable someday I will try the 60" as a supplement to my handy 56er.

Other bowyers just may not have as easy of a time extrapolating a longer version from a proven short bow design. It may open a whole new can of worms, or worse yet reduce or eliminate the best qualities of said short bow. You follow? Like for example, if you make the limbs longer you also might have to make them lighter to give the same energy return for a given draw length...how do you go about shaving the weight? Oly limbs are carbon/ composite construction for a reason. You have to have quick recovering limbs on a 70" bow drawing 28-29" or its gonna be a dog. Just physics. It'll be smooth as butter, but the 64 or 66" bow of similar design will be snappier as along as your still within its smooth range and not stacking. Or something to that effect, I'm not a bowyer so I think I'll leave it at that.

Mo0se · December 03, 2014, 06:15:00 PM

There is merit to that nine is saying about the Dalaa..one riser and a multitude of limb in REC and LB from LOTS of manufacturers. I prefer the 21 and XXL combo :D Nothing wrong with the 3rivers LB limbs... Think Jim Belcher and Sky Archery. It's better to have the ability to fine tune the bow..than mess with arrow length/ weight until you are blue in the face!

Having 4 lengths of limbs to choose is not such a bad thing either. Surely there is a combo in that range perfect for everyone.

Mo0se · December 03, 2014, 06:16:00 PM

PS... for me, tinkering is part of the fun.

riverrat 2 · December 03, 2014, 06:22:00 PM

All Good points nine9. Great post. I hear ya' pal. Wind is outta my sails. Somebody posted earlier something to the effect of.. "If you've got it in your head 64-66" is the ONLY length,then that's the ONLY length." There are a lot of dang nice short longbows out there Chuck. You take care pal. (That Habu is aweful nice bud...Sellers remorse might get ya!) I've gotten that a time or two. rat'

Sixby · December 03, 2014, 07:02:00 PM

This is my longest. 2 piece takedown, locket socket, 68 inch string follow, I build it from 68 inch to 60 inch.

God bless, Steve

Chromebuck · December 03, 2014, 08:21:00 PM

No offense to any of the bowyers contributing to this thread, but after 9 pages I think it can be surmised that Ryan's grievance/frustration is specifically aimed at three makers.

Fun thread! Just sayin...

~CB

riverrat 2 · December 03, 2014, 08:40:00 PM

Hey Keith. How ya'been. I listed my best liked short R/D longbow bowyers there bud. There actually are a whole bunch more that have killer shortys that I like the design of a lot,and didn't list. No reason other than I just listed my top 3 whose designs are the best IMO. Just to short. rat'

achigan · December 03, 2014, 11:28:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Cyclic-Rivers:
I like longbows and have made a few comments already but since this is still at the top, I would like to add what I am really thinking.....

I wish JD Berry and Steve Turray and other reputable long bow builders would make a super short Recurve. say 54" for us short bow fanatics... :eek: :rolleyes:

Ok, I admit, I'm trying to stir the pot. :p

Well stirred Sir

**DONOTDELETE** · December 04, 2014, 12:22:00 AM

QuoteKirkII..yes you are missing something. Here it is..I am saying that there are ALOT of awesome R/D designs out there that stop at 62"es or a lot less. I fully realize there are OTHER R/D's out there that go beyond that threshold. I own,or have owned many of them. HOWEVER,I personally really like a lot of Short bow designs,in there look/feel/shape department and still believe they could be made into at least 64" models without sacrificing to much.

That was rather vague.... Are you looking for something specific? or are you just trying to make a point regarding the simplicity of bow design parameters?......

You can "believe" anything you want to sir. But there is a whole lot more to building a good shooting bow than the length of the dad burn thing........ I believe..... that's all i got to say about that....

Flying Dutchman · December 04, 2014, 03:35:00 AM

I don't care about the length, as long as a bow shoots nice.I think length has to do with the design of a bow and your draw length.
I think that non r\\d bows, like HH have to be longer for getting optimal performance; due to the nature of the beast.
The more r/d, the shorter the bow can be. This explains why hybrids, recurves and statics are shorter then real longbows.
The same for drawlenght, the more draw length, the longer the limbs should be for most bows.
But the shorter the bow is, the easier it handles in the woods.
I think it is all in the design. I have shot bows of 58" who shot better then 66" bows.
I took the best of two worlds; with my draw length of 29 inches I settled down on 62" bows and have one on order of 60".