The REAL bow length

Bladepeek · May 23, 2014, 11:55:00 AM

One of my pet peeves (yeah, I have many) is the seemingly unlimited number of different connectors on USB cords. You need 16 different cords for all your cell phones, cameras, GPS, etc.

Another is bowyers who seem to follow no standards in specing their bow lengths. It would seem to me, we could use a standard for trad bows describing the bows length. I'm not saying it HAS to be the AMO standard method, so maybe a couple of standards which could be named. Like SAE, Rockwell, whatever, but standards. As an engineer, I like to see things described in terms that are reliable and predictable.

I have an old Bear Kodiak Magnum that seems to hit the AMO standard pretty close with its 52" marking.

All, every single one, of the RER bows I've had is dead on at the AMO standard of 3" longer than the string required to meet recommended brace height. If I order a string for my 58" RER XR, I order 55" - perfect fit. My 62" LX takes a 59" string. Again, that puts me dead on at the recommended brace height and I can tune up or down as desired.

I just picked up a used D/R longbow from a respected maker marked 52" 42# @ 28", but it takes a 51" string to meet the bowyer's recommended brace height. Seems a little to me like the "fine print" at the bottom of ads.

For example, "52" Bow, draws without stacking to 29", but then in fine print "depending on how you measure it, this bow might be considered 54".

Am I just being cranky in my old age, or does anyone else feel the same?

monterey · May 23, 2014, 12:16:00 PM

You are just being cranky!

my bows are made to an approximate length without concern for AMO or any other standard. If it is sold or given away, the recipient is told what the appropriate string length is.

Bladepeek · May 23, 2014, 12:26:00 PM

Mike, you're probably right. Seems I've been told that before

And if you want to give me a bow, I won't quibble over the length.

On the other hand, if you are selling bows as a business, I do feel your reputation would be enhanced if you describe your product in an easily recognized manner.

Or, what would be REALLY slick, mark the bow with the appropriate string length!

Just an old grouch's opinion.

monterey · May 23, 2014, 12:35:00 PM

You are absolutely correct regarding accurate marking by a pro bowyer. Whether AMO or not, the bow should be marked with NTN length. That said, most of my bows carry no marks whatever.

Danny Rowan · May 23, 2014, 12:38:00 PM

I dont know :confused: :confused: Every bow I have ever owned was marked by the bowyer for length, ie, 62" and took a string 3 inches shorter if it was a longbow or 4" shorter if it was a recurve for the most part, now that differs depending, like my Schafers, if they are B50 then the string is 5" shorter, now my new Huntsman recurve takes a string 3" shorter, but both bowyers give you that information when you recieve the bow.

Bladepeek · May 23, 2014, 01:08:00 PM

Danny, sort of like calling a floor a deck?

**DONOTDELETE** · May 23, 2014, 01:29:00 PM

I think i built that bow....LOL! Was it an early model one piece Yeti?..... I think i just sent you an email stating i think i mis marked that baby as a 52"..... OOOOPS!

On the other hand.... i've got quite a few bows that use a string 2.5" shorter to get a 6.75" to 7" brace on them. Oh sure.... i could put AMO length strings on them and limit the brace adjustment from 7.5" to 8"..... But a lot of these bows have a great limb design & shoot excellent at lower brace heights.

Do you guys think i should be altering the string nock locations and limb length just to accommodate AMO 3" standards? I don't....

Besides..... you buy strings from one outfit and they stretch and settle in at least a 1/4" to a half inch after first putting them on the bow depending on materials used it could be more.

The string builder i use now these string don't move at all.... maybe an 1/8" of loop settle at most.... even twisting the string up a bit. these strings stay put.... I order them 2" shorter than my bow length so i can get a few twists in them and still obtain a lower brace height.

While we are putting pet peeves on the table... the one that drives the bowyers nuts is giving a customer a recommended brace height of 7"-7 1/4" and have the guys buying them say, "I shoot all my bows at 8" brace" and complain about having to twist the string up so much..... Good grief! What's a guy to do here?...

All bows are not designed to shoot the same brace height. If you have a bow that needs over 8" brace just to quiet it down and shoot decent, the limb typically doesn't have enough preload built into it.

nineworlds9 · May 23, 2014, 01:41:00 PM

This issue is seems common. I have owned a bunch of bows and have ordered a couple strings based on AMO length only to have the string be too long or too short. That's why it's best to measure the bow's ASL strung at brace height and go with that.

Over&Under · May 23, 2014, 02:12:00 PM

I understand what you are saying Bladespeek...I just had a bow built that the bowyer calls a 60"...but then tells me that by everyone elses standards its a 58"...so I now have 2 58" bows that take different string lengths :(

Bladepeek · May 23, 2014, 04:01:00 PM

Hi Kirk. Yep, that was your little Yeti and I agree it was probably marked 52" by accident. 54" would have been spot on. I got your e-mail. I don't believe we disagree on much of anything. A bowyer certainly knows better than anyone where his bow is designed to be braced. Sure, depending on my draw length and shooting style, I might brace it 1/4" higher or lower, but for the most part I try the bowyer's suggested height first.

That's where I think the standard would help. If someone builds a bow that for his recommended brace height requires a 52" string, either call it a 55" bow, or just mark it ASL 52".

Oh well, for someone who gripes as much as I do, I'm pretty happy with the bows I have and do enjoy shooting them.

By the way, did I mention I dislike having so many different USB cables?

dhermon85 · May 23, 2014, 05:18:00 PM

Custom bow, custom string?

Walt Francis · May 23, 2014, 07:04:00 PM

2x What Kirk said.

My understanding is a bows length is not determined by the length of the string, but by the distance from nock to nock along the back of the bow. Therefore, different designs and brace heights would naturally require different length strings. The string length has nothing to do with determining the length of a bow.

Swamp Yankee · May 23, 2014, 07:39:00 PM

It's a little like going around your ass to get to your elbow; but marking any bow with an AMO length is telling the owner what length the string needs to be. I honestly don't understand why more bowyers can't simply comply with the standard and make life easier for their customers by simply marking the recommended string length or AMO length on their bows. Ink is pretty cheap.

Thumper Dunker · May 23, 2014, 07:59:00 PM

Tell you what I will take all of the miss marked or unmarked bows off your hands so it won't bug you any more. I will not charge you for doing this for you.

Bladepeek · May 23, 2014, 11:01:00 PM

Walt, that's just a little like saying SAE specs don't determine the number of threads per inch on a bolt. Of course they don't. The man who set up the lathe or screw machine did that. But, he has to designate it somehow so others will know what it is. If he says "its my # 4 thread", that doesn't tell us much unless we know him personally and know what he calls a #4 thread. A common standard will tell us the type of thread, dia. of the bolt and number of threads/inch.

Measuring a bow from nock to nock doesn't tell us much except how long the bow is from nock to nock.

If the bowyer says it's AMO 59 1/2, and he follows AMO standards, it will tell us that the bow, when braced to the bowyers recommended height is 62 1/2" long by AMO standards and needs a 59 1/2" string. Take a really squirrely osage self bow and measure along the back (or belly) and you will have more than the smooth distance from nock to nock, but the bow could be spec'ed using the AMO standard and I could order a string for it without having to guess how the bowyer measured it.

If I pick up a bow whose maker is no longer with us and it needs a string, the AMO length, if correctly marked on the bow, would let me order or build one to the correct length.

None of this will make a bow shoot any better, and I'm kind of wishing I never started the thread.

Thumper Dunker, I spent way too much money shopping the classifieds here and assembling a bunch of bows I like to let you have them quite that easy. But thanks for the offer

Homebru · May 24, 2014, 09:16:00 AM

So, Blade.......ultimately, your beef is that Kurt mis-marked his bow? I'd rather have him mis-mark the bow than forget the glue.
homebru

Bladepeek · May 24, 2014, 09:55:00 AM

No, I don't have a beef with Kirk. We've e-mailed and I agree with him completely. He told me the bow was probably marked incorrectly by accident, rather than through any proprietary measuring system, and would normally have been marked 54" rather than 52".

I probably worded my initial post poorly. I should have been more specific and said something like;

"It would be nice if bowyers would indicate the string length necessary to properly brace the bow at what the bowyer feels is the optimum range of brace heights. They could do this by either indicating ASL (actual string length) or marking the bow
'AMO xx"' and then conforming to AMO standards if they choose to mark it in that way.

Would not improve the quality of the bow in any way and would probably also not increase sales. It would just be a nice-to-have piece of information for 2nd and 3rd generation owners.

So go ahead and nail me for being picky, and I probably am and deserve it. I think this final post for me is a valid statement and I wish I had worded my initial post this way.

LBR · May 24, 2014, 11:14:00 AM

It would sure make things easier for string makers.

I've seen longbow strings vary from 1.5" to 4" shorter; recurve strings from 2.5" to 6" shorter. The ones that got a string 6" shorter (Herters) has a sticker on it stating such.

AMO states it pretty simply. The AMO bow length should be marked 3" longer than the "string master" (steel cable--no stretch) that puts it at proper brace. Doesn't require any modifications to the bow itself, doesn't change regardless of bow style.

Or the info. could at least be inked on the bow, put on a sticker, or added to the paperwork if the bowyer didn't want to bother with AMO.

Add something like 59" RSL to the rest of the ink. Wouldn't take long for folks to figure out RSL stood for "Recommended String Length".

I thought that was one of the main reasons for marking the bow's AMO length to begin with--so we would know what length string to put on it?

Bladepeek, FWIW I think it's a great idea.

Zradix · May 24, 2014, 02:19:00 PM

I had one of those herters Chad.
Perfection 46. "46 in" bow. Said right on it to use a 40" string.

**DONOTDELETE** · May 24, 2014, 03:46:00 PM

Hey Blade, when you get ready to have that little guy refinished send it to me and i'll re-mark it 54"amo and put about 4 coats of Thunderbird epoxy finish on it..... $75.00 plus shipping will do it.

I typically do mark them with amo bow lengths now. My earlier models i was a bit more casual about it.