Head to Head Trad Bow Speed Testing Results

pamike · June 30, 2013, 12:24:00 PM

I know from talking to Steve and Kirk that they say veneers impact performance. Kirk's quote to me was "BW ebony veneers are like putting lead in your boots and then running a race". How much ????? I will have to let the experts comment on that.

A.S. · June 30, 2013, 12:36:00 PM

Great info Mike!

I love to test my stuff as well. I agree that testing them "hunt ready" is a good idea.

I have one bow that I simply don't enjoy shooting with just one pair of whiskers on it. When I put a 2 small pairs of whisker on the string, it makes a world of difference (both in sound and vibration). It takes away 2-3 fps, but makes the bow much nicer to shoot.

Sixby · June 30, 2013, 12:48:00 PM

just look at the two EagleWings. the fast one has myrtle veneers and the slower one has macassar veneers. both ground to .017 and that is the main difference in the two sets of limbs. BTW the stats you got on those bows are only a few fps difference in what Kirk tested them at so you have an excellent finger release.
I am still in shock that the Habu longbow is that fast. You even said that Chris said the recurve was faster. So , My take on this is that you have an exceptionally fast over norm longbow and perhaps a bit slower recurve. This is something that drives bowyers nuts but happens occasionally. Two identical built bows and one will just be quicker or slower than average.
In this case you got a goodie.

BTW you are not getting my fastest bows with the belly mount bows either. The three piece EW longbow , the Storm Eagle Static and the onepiece EW are all quicker on the average than the belly mount bows.

I am honestly surprised at the performance of the Hill, the Habu and the Eagle Wing belly mount bows. All of them obviously very well designed. Would be interested to see how the Black Widow stacks up to them. I expected all these bows to be in the higher 180s to lower 190s.

God bless, Steve

lone hunter · June 30, 2013, 01:07:00 PM

Trying to extrapolate these numbers at 30" draw to a 28" draw. Can't remember how much speed changes per inch draw above or below 28. Kinda remember it was 3-5 ft/sec but am probably wrong.

pamike · June 30, 2013, 01:43:00 PM

Steve - so your saying you are going to have to build me a faster one......you were very clear with me on the fact that these would be a little slower - but i really like your belly mount bows!!

Lone Hunter - if you go down in draw weight you will go down in bow weight and then to stay at 9 gpp you will go down in arrow weight. the speeds should be very close - just lose KE.

Sixby · June 30, 2013, 02:10:00 PM

Mike: Thanks for letting all know that I told you that these are not my speed bows. Not slouches but definitely not my bows I would pick to win an all out contest. However I got some work to do to catch that Habu , since its a like kind of bow. I got to find at least 2 more fps somewhere. LOl
Gives me something to shoot at.
I really like the belly mount bows too and with the numbers that they all are getting they ought to be gobbling the Hills and Ews up. There is not really enough difference in them and the hot top mount bows to make a hill of beans difference in real life and the belly mount bows shoot awesome.
Right now I have the forms for my new belly mount static recurve built and will be getting a proto asap to have Bro. Kirk test. If these new limbs work out they will be setting new standards for belly mount recurves. "But this remains to be seen and that is the fun of all of this stuff.
So----- I build bows when people order them. Are you ordering a new bow ? I still have a piece of that koa.

God bless, Steve

pamike · June 30, 2013, 03:03:00 PM

i am on hold for new bows until after the hunting season!! Time to pick a bow or two and get serious.

Cant wait to see how the new limbs work out.....

pamike · June 30, 2013, 04:24:00 PM

added the Toelke Lynx info - 188 fps. Pretty impressive for straight limb LB.

Zradix · June 30, 2013, 04:55:00 PM

just makes me want an eagle wing even more...lol

if I could just find out how to get that speed AND longevity out of my BBO's I could save some $$$..if I didn't account for 50 bow builds trying...lol.

Zradix · June 30, 2013, 04:56:00 PM

for me they look like the total package.
Forward riser, longbow quiet, pretty, fast/efficient..gotta get one..lol

atatarpm · June 30, 2013, 05:38:00 PM

I like it. Working field tests are the best and real world. Thank you.

ishoot4thrills · June 30, 2013, 05:46:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by pamike:
......Lone Hunter - if you go down in draw weight you will go down in bow weight and then to stay at 9 gpp you will go down in arrow weight. the speeds should be very close - just lose KE.

Not if he's asking about two different bows that are each the same draw weight but at different draw lengths. Then, it's not gonna be close at all.

Example:
Bow #1-Morrison Cheyenne 50#@28", 450gr. arrow.
Bow #2-Morrison Cheyenne 50#@30", 450gr. arrow.

I know that in wheelie bows it comes to about 10 fps for every inch of draw length lost or gained. It's not as much with trad bows though. I would say that it's about 5 fps variation for every inch of draw length difference with trad bows.

pamike · June 30, 2013, 06:27:00 PM

Why wouldn't bow 1 and bow 2 shoot the same speed??

jonsimoneau · June 30, 2013, 06:52:00 PM

Sound like you have a bunch of fine bows Mike! It does not surprise me at all that your habu with the longbow limbs is that fast. I've never put mine under a chrono, but it is quite fast. What surprises me most is that the recurve limbs are not even faster. I figured they would be a few FPS faster than the longbow limbs. As you know, I'm a pretty hardcore Habu bow fan, but I'd like to try some of those other bows as well.

RecurveRookie · June 30, 2013, 07:03:00 PM

Thanks for the interesting study! I'm with you on having the bows silenced.

I had all kinds of puffs on my recurve to get it quiet, but my longbow didn't need much.

You got some fast bows.

Nativestranger · June 30, 2013, 08:02:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by ishoot4thrills:

QuoteOriginally posted by pamike:
......Lone Hunter - if you go down in draw weight you will go down in bow weight and then to stay at 9 gpp you will go down in arrow weight. the speeds should be very close - just lose KE.
Not if he's asking about two different bows that are each the same draw weight but at different draw lengths. Then, it's not gonna be close at all.

Example:
Bow #1-Morrison Cheyenne 50#@28", 450gr. arrow.
Bow #2-Morrison Cheyenne 50#@30", 450gr. arrow.

I know that in wheelie bows it comes to about 10 fps for every inch of draw length lost or gained. It's not as much with trad bows though. I would say that it's about 5 fps variation for every inch of draw length difference with trad bows. [/b]

Yes I remember it's about 5 fps average for every extra inch on trad bows. Shooting with fingers cost about 5fps and silencers about 3-5fps.

Sixby · June 30, 2013, 08:07:00 PM

I shoot(Quote) :Example:
Bow #1-Morrison Cheyenne 50#@28", 450gr. arrow.
Bow #2-Morrison Cheyenne 50#@30", 450gr. arrow.

I know that in wheelie bows it comes to about 10 fps for every inch of draw length lost or gained. It's not as much with trad bows though. I would say that it's about 5 fps variation for every inch of draw length difference with trad bows.

Answer: Perhaps and perhaps not, A lot depends on the draw force curve of the two bows.
If the two poundages are exactly the same as in the scenario you gave the difference in speed will be minor. probably in the 2 to 3 fps difference. It all depends on the difference in the efficiency at 28 compared to the efficiency at 30 and that may not be a lot if the bow is highly efficient at 28 inches.
For instance I am seeing barely any difference in the speeds of Mikes 30 in bows at 50 lbs than the bows I build at 50 lbs that are 50 at 28 in.

Where the difference really seems to show up is when the bow is like 50 lb at 26 inches and not tailored to be efficient at 26 inches. A lot of this can be made up for by adjustment of the working limb of the bow so that the bow becomes more efficient at the 26 in draw. Built to be draw specific.
Not all however.

God bless, Steve

nineworlds9 · June 30, 2013, 09:26:00 PM

This test has me super stoked to get my hands on Lonewolf73's (Kim's), now my Vyperkahn Jet 65@29 later this week. I'm guessing the triple carbon LB limbs are gonna be smokers. Oooohh...

pamike · June 30, 2013, 09:32:00 PM

I almost got the jet version - very cool looking, but I keep going back to pretty woods. Enjoy the JET!!

Steve - that makes sense and what I was thinking.

Mike

ishoot4thrills · June 30, 2013, 09:33:00 PM

Steve(Sixby),

Yes, I totally see and agree with what you're saying. Especially with a short bow where the bow begins to stack at the longer draw which will decrease performance.

But, generally speaking, the farther you draw the bow the more energy you store in it(up to a certain point), thus increasing arrow speed. I know that this is a blanket statement, but remember I'm talking about in general. This is why a lot of people with long draw lengths have more trouble finding wood arrows that are stiff enough for their setups when using the higher poundage bows as opposed to those with shorter draw lengths using the same draw weight.