Purchasing wood shafts with tighter Spine Ranges

UrbanDeerSlayer · February 26, 2013, 06:43:00 PM

Trying to get more consistent wood shafts in order to obtain better flight. Most suppliers sell shafts in ranges such as 45-50, 50-55, etc...

What if I only want shafts around 53#? Will any suppliers sell a dozen shafts spined at lets say 52-54#?

Grey Taylor · February 26, 2013, 07:03:00 PM

You can likely get anything you want to pay extra for. Try a smaller shop rather than a large one like 3R. I find I get better service when the owner is the one who answers the phone.
But I can't see this tighter range making much difference. I've seen very few people who shoot well enough to take advantage of sorting like this. But, heck, if it makes you feel better have at it.

Guy

Mike Vines · February 26, 2013, 07:05:00 PM

Yes, but it is gonna cost you. I think you are WAY over thinking things. It's good your getting involved, and the best part is you can do all the tinkering you want.

Some guys deal in thousandths of an inch. As for me, as long as I'm on the correct construction site, I'm doing good.

Orion · February 26, 2013, 07:35:00 PM

I agree with Guy. I haven't seen anyone yet who can shoot the difference in a few pounds of spine, and I've been at this for more than 50 years.

If you want to match your arrows very closely, you need your own spine tester and grain scale, because what you order isn't necessarily what you get. I've had spines range more than 20# in a dozen that were supposed to be sorted to within 5# of spine. I've found even larger discrepancies in weight, up to 40-50 grains difference in shafts that were supposed to be weighed within plus or minus 10 grains. The only way to know what you're shooting is to weigh and spine it yourself.

snag · February 26, 2013, 11:18:00 PM

I make arrows for guys that are national champs in their country. They receive arrows that are in 5# spine groups and win! I spoke with a man yesterday that beat the whole field of carbon and aluminum shooters with my wood arrows. Sometimes it is easier to blame the equipment than ourselves....

David Yukon · February 26, 2013, 11:31:00 PM

What David(snag) said! If one guy know about wood arrows, that is him! If you want tight tolerances shoot carbon... But then again, what is the point to shoot a trad stick if you don't shoot wood??
Cheers

Flying Dutchman · February 27, 2013, 02:33:00 AM

It is my experience that arrow weight plays a bigger role then spine-value. When you are within the 5 lbs, you're okay. I have a digital grain scale to weight and match my arrows in weight.

Rick Richard · February 27, 2013, 06:09:00 AM

If you want what you are looking for, try Rod Kelley at 406 756 5885.

I wanted matched spine and grain weight shafts and he supplied them to me with a list of each shafts weight and spine.

UrbanDeerSlayer · February 27, 2013, 08:16:00 AM

I do not doubt that wood can be as accurate as carbon and aluminum, that is why I started this thread. I have been shooting alot of 20 yd indoor target this winter and am able to shoot my carbons much tighter than the wood shafts that I am currently using. I have spined my own shafts to within a pound, and I do notice that a 50# spine shaft may not fly as well as a 54# shaft. I have also noticed that grain straightness is a key factor. Some good info so far, keep it coming, and thanks.

bowless · February 27, 2013, 08:31:00 AM

If it'll boost your confidence, it might be worth it.

WESTBROOK · February 27, 2013, 08:49:00 AM

Frankly, its not the spine grouping...its the spine.

I read one of your other posts, 50-55# arrows at over 29" are realy 45-50's and less than that with a 145g pt. Your shooting a 46# center shot bow with a FF string. They are too weak.

Did you ever shorten the arrows to 28" as suggested?

Did you move your knock point up when you went from carbon to wood?

I'd be getting a test kit from Surewood and find the spine that works for you.

As said above, there are folks that shoot way better than most of us that do just fine with a 5# spine group.

Eric

Jim Wright · February 27, 2013, 08:53:00 AM

What Rick said about Rod Kelley. he will select tighter spine ranges for you although personally 5 lbs. works for me. Rod has a Traditional Archery Shop out of his home and has been crafting arrows for a long time. Another thing about him is that when he tells you he has "nice Cedar", it's REALLY nice. I've been shooting it awhile and have more shafts on the way now.

Jim Wright · February 27, 2013, 08:55:00 AM

What Rick said about Rod Kelley. he will select tighter spine ranges for you although personally 5 lbs. works for me. Rod has a Traditional Archery Shop out of his home and has been crafting arrows for a long time. Another thing about him is that when he tells you he has "nice Cedar", it's REALLY nice. I've been shooting it awhile and have more shafts on the way now.

gringol · February 27, 2013, 09:23:00 AM

A test pack is the way to go. You'll save yourself a bunch of trouble and $$$ in the long run. I shoot a 56# bow with FF string drawn to 29.5". I need 80-85# shafts to get decent flight with a 125grn head. I never would have figured on a spine that high without a test pack...

LittleBen · February 27, 2013, 09:33:00 AM

Then theres always the option to buy alot of shafts, and spine them all by hand, and weigh them and group them.

LittleBen · February 27, 2013, 09:37:00 AM

I'm on board with Gringol though too, You should really test for spine with a test pack or something.

The other thing I've done with some success is use a carbon arrow to tune the spine by adding tip weight or shortening etc. then putting the info into the stu miller calculator to get the dynamic spine number for the tuned arrow.

Then I can basically work up any shaft/tip combo which yields the same dynamic spine (again using the calculator) and I know it will at least be very close if not dead on.

dino · February 27, 2013, 10:05:00 AM

If you want to be that accurate you need to pick a deflection value on a particular spine tester. Not all spine testers read the exact same as weight related to deflection. All of them should be equal as .520 equals 50# but as you move out they are not all the same. Deflection is a more accurate measurement and if you alway use the same spine tester then all is the same.

Bjorn · February 27, 2013, 11:11:00 AM

If you want accuracy to the # and gn, you need to accumulate hundreds of shafts and grade them yourself if you really want to the # accuracy. Then put them on the tester yourself. It is easy to do, and you need a lot of shafts.
I have a ton of cedar stashed away mostly in the 70# up category-all 11/32, and I can pick whatever I want. Having said that they work just fine in a 5# range and I generally select within 10 gns just because I can.

slowbowjoe · February 27, 2013, 12:04:00 PM

If I may add a little twist to the topic - I'm content shooting within 5#, but finding my Ace 101 typically reads right around 5# less than what I've ordered. This is true across four separate sets, from four very highly regarded sponsors here. All doug fir. Doesn't seem likely they're all marked incorrectly.
Am I using the spine tester wrong (called Ace a couple times for advice, using as recommended ), or is there something else going on that explains the issue?

Countcoup43 · February 27, 2013, 09:47:00 PM

I have always noticed with wood several arrows from a dozen seem to group better and it usually goes back to weight and deflection being closer between them and others in that same dozen.

Correct me if I'm wrong but for instance in a typical say 55-60# range there would be up to a .050" deflection differance and it be acceptable. Maybe even greater in some weight groups! That's like the differance between a 2018 and 2117 aluminum shaft within the same dozen.

I think many shooters and or bows would notice that much wouldn't they?