Broadhead weight / FOC

[Huntswithbows]

I am switching back to wood shafts after a few years shooting carbons.  

In the past I have used 125 - 135 grain two blade broadheads on cedar arrows with no problems.  When using carbons, I went with a 200 grain broadhead to add weight to the lighter arrow.  

My plan is to make my wood arrows with douglas fir. Which should get me close to the weight of my carbons.  Is FOC really that important?

[lpcjon2]

This is just my opinion, if 125-135 worked then why worry about the EFOCBDTEW stuff. I shoot 130 gr heads and have no problems. Im not into that rocket science stuff.

[Prairie Drifter]

Foc is only important if your hunting "BIG" stuff. Deer sized game, not so much. IMHO

[ti-guy]

A razor sharp BH mounted on an arrow that fly staight and heavy enough (ex:10-12 gpp)are,to me,first thing I want before playing with FOC.

[Stiks-n-Strings]

I don't pick it apart but I like a little weight up front. Seems to me my arrows fly a bit better.

Nothing wrong with the set up you had before. I shoot surewoods and 200 grains up front. With a non footed arrow I usually get around 650 to 660 grains with a good footed shaft it puts me up around 720 or 740. I don't need the weight I shoot but I know I can pack up and hunt anything on this continent with my set up. Really knocks a tree rat or bunny for a loop too.

[Smithhammer]

This does a good job of summing up the importance of FOC for me:

http://www.alaskabowhunting.com/Three-Darts-W13.aspx

[Ragnarok Forge]

Perfect arrow flight from a properly tuned bow and a razor sharp broadhead are most important. The real question is how important is it to you?  Millions of animals
Have been killed without HFOC arrows.   I would bet that a few hundred thousand would have been recovered instead of lost if shot with either heavier or HFOC arrows.  If you are ethical hunter that gets close and only takes clean shots it is probably not that important.  If you are not a great shot,  have lost a few wounded animals,  or often get buck fever it may be more important.  HFOC and EFOC can become critical for heavy game and when a bad shot occurs.  If you shoot lighter arrows HFOC will help your arrows recover more quickly and make tuning easier.  It won't help with your penetration much.  HFOC is optimized with heavier arrow weights.  

It really boils down to your shooting skill and what you are confident with.   EFOC is not a replacement for good form, knowing when to and when not to shoot, and good shot angle and distance choices are far more important.

[ChuckC]

It could be important, but put it in perspective.  

Lotsa animals have been killed with arrows that are nowhere near UFOC or whatever it is called.  If your arrows routinely go deep enough to penetrate both lungs of the animals you hunt, then whatever you are using is great.
ChuckC

[Fletcher]

125 grain heads have worked and killed things for a long time and will continue to do so;  that doesn't mean we can't do better.  I find that arrows with heavier points shoot and perform better for me than lighter point weights.  It is important to tune for the heavier point weight, but I believe it is well worth the effort.  You will never know if you like it until you try it.

[dragonheart]

Originally posted by Fletcher:
125 grain heads have worked and killed things for a long time and will continue to do so;  that doesn't mean we can't do better.  I find that arrows with heavier points shoot and perform better for me than lighter point weights.  It is important to tune for the heavier point weight, but I believe it is well worth the effort.  You will never know if you like it until you try it.

Ditto for me.

[slivrslingr]

Perfect tuning and a sharp BH are way more important than the FOC number.

[Fletcher]

Originally posted by slivrslingr:
Perfect tuning and a sharp BH are way more important than the FOC number.

You are absolutely correct.  Well tuned perfect arrow flight trumps total arrow weight and FOC when it comes to hunting arrow performance.  Tuning with heavy points and high FOC is done the same as with any point weight and I believe I get better hunting performance with a high FOC versus a low FOC arrow of the same total weight.  Heavy points sharpen just like light ones.

Not everyone is going to make the move to higher FOC arrows, but in my experience, I'm not going back.

[vintage archer]

This has already been said but the most important part of arrow and bow set up is perfect arrow flight from a properly tuned bow and a razor sharp broadhead. Then perfect shot placement.
All that being said there are things that bowhunters control that improve their ability to take game. FOC arrows are great but they are not as important as just an arrow that has as total weight of 650 grains or more.  Arrows of 650 grain total weight or more apt to penetrate bone if bone is accidently encountered.    FOC does not contribute to bone penetration however high FOC increase penetration in soft tissue.
The ideal situation is to have the best of both worlds and combine a heavy arrow (650+) with a high percentage of FOC.  The categories of forward of center, commonly referred to, are set out by Dr. Ed Ashby
 Normal FOC = 0 percent to 12 percent
 High FOC= 12 percent to 19 percent
 Extreme FOC =19 percent to 30 percent
 Ultra Extreme FOC = more than 30 percent
Using wood arrows it become very hard, if not impossible to reach Ultra EFOC.This is mainly because it hard to find stiff enough arrows and heavy enough glue on broadheads. The possibility may exist with products like woody weights and footed shafts or a combination of all. Most archers using arrows in the higher FOC categories EFOC and UEFOC are using carbon or aluminum shafts with a combination of heavy broadheads, screw on adapters and/or footing.

It is common for bowhunters using wood arrows to attain FOC in the 15% to 25 % range. These ranges are relatively easy to reach
Heavy arrows are not hard to attain and being one of the important factors in arrow design It and bowhunters should stive for them Itis true heavy arrows reduce trajectory but they really only have a marginal effect on shots less than 30 yards. The benefits and arguments for heavy arrows mostly outweigh the distance/trajectory argument.

To some it sounds complicated and not worth it because they are comfortable with their set up and do not see the need on deer size game. I would dispute that point just through my own experience. Over the last 35 years of hunting with traditional and primitive equipment I have made less than perfect shots (not very many LOL)      on deer hitting the shoulder (scapula) and had next to no penetration or even had arrows bounce out. Would I have planned that, no, but STUFF does happen. Maybe a heavy arrow would not have changed the outcome in all cases but I am positive it would in a lot of them.
I am not knocking anyone and their beliefs .We all formulate our philosophies and practices from our experiences. I shot the same arrow spine for over 20 years. I followed the rule of thumb use an arrow spine 10 lb over your longbow weight. During that time I never bare shafted my arrows to see if the spine was correct for my bow. For the most part my arrows flue true.If they did not I would take up or let out a few twist in the string. If that did not work I would put bigger feathers on the arrows     Since those days I have experience the effects of heavy arrows and foc and would not consider going back to my old ways .Yes it takes work and sometimes it is costly as  new arrow  might be needed .  
Knowing what we know now about arrow weight and foc why would one not incorporate that knowledge into their arrow set up.??

Some things traditional archers are slow to embrace but we have accepted fiberglass backing on bows, different string materials, high tech core materials and  stressed bow limb designs Yes there are people uneasy with these changes just as they are with arrow and broadhead design changes.
TRY IT ! Heavy arrows (650gn+) .Work some foc in there if you can! Like many others you might like it and see the benefits.  

[Night Wing]

When I started bowhunting in 1964, FOC percentage was never heard of.

[vintage archer]

Night Wing,
You are right. If FOC was known I had never heard of it back then.
Dr.Ashby studies brought FOC into the lime light.
The argument of heavy slow arrows vs. light fast arrows or heavy bullets vs. light bullets has been argued for ages.
Dr Ashby proves at least in my estimation that heavy is the way to go. It is momentum vs. kinetic energy.
Momentum Wins....................................  

[Troy Breeding]

The first time I met Dr. Ashby I can tell you I thought he was a tad bit off his rocker.

I was never going to need arrows that heavy, I was only hunting deer.

After I got into hog hunting I found out my setup was like trying to take a deer with a rim fire weapon.

After increasing my arrow weight I found penetration wasn't a problem. This lead me to trying heavier and heavier arrows. Like Joe stated, if they didn't fly quite right I just added bigger feathers.

Afew years after getting into heavy arrows I found out about proper tuning. Penetration increased even more.

Acouple years ago Dr. Ed told me about his FOC finding and what increasing FOC did for the arrows flight and penetration.

Now that I'm full bore into high FOC I doubt I would ever think of using a light weight arrow again.

Troy

[Ground Hunter]

I think heavy arrows are great - if you shoot a heavy bow.  If you shoot a light bow - you and gravity will not be friends.  Unless you like rainbows.  My arrows run about 700 - 770 grains.  But they have some horse power behind them.  You want to shoot heavy arrows - work up to a heaver bow.  Ashby used heavy bows in his research.  Over generalizations of research are a basic flaw.  One size does not fit all.  If you can't get a heavy arrow to the animal - you are just killing dirt.

[Smithhammer]

Originally posted by Ground Hunter:
 One size does not fit all.  If you can't get a heavy arrow to the animal - you are just killing dirt.

Agreed, but I think one can still see improved performance from an increased FOC arrow, even if the overall arrow weight isn't necessarily a "heavyweight" arrow.

The performance improvements of merely increasing weight, and increasing FOC, are related of course, but not the same. Increasing overall weight (in proportion to what your bow is capable of shooting, of course), is generally going to be an improvement over light. But, a heavy arrow with more evenly-distributed weight throughout the arrow is a different beast, and less of an improvement in my opinion, than an arrow with most of that weight concentrated toward the front of the arrow (as per the link I provided).

[Ragnarok Forge]

Ground Hunter.

The latest Ashby reports have included light bows using heavy arrows and they penetrate from fairly well to spectacularly well.   Yes, your trajectory has a higher arc.  The real question is how many of us shoot past 30 yards at animals.  Most shoot at 20 or under with trad gear.   Out to 30 yards the arc is not that big of an issue.   Past 30 the arrows really drop off.  

If you shoot the same bow and arrows for years you can shoot heavy arrows accurately at 30, 40 on out to 70 yards.   Bowmen stayed alive doing this in the dark ages.  I agree that a fast arrow is nice to have.  When it comes to hunting moose, or african game, I will take a heavy arrow out of a light bow over a light fast arrow out of a heavy bow.

[Ground Hunter]

What to shoot a heavy arrow - shoot a heavy bow.  That is what Ashby did in his research.  I just don't get the "extreme" mentality of this.  Any bow using a well balanced arrow of 9-10 grains per pound will more that adequately dispatch any north American animal using a bow weight appropriate for the game.  Fact.  Rainbow trajectory - yes.  You might look onto something called "Depth-of-kill."  Low weight bows hit diminished returns real fast at distance.  Shoot what you like - there is no magic arrow.