Times have changed. Bow # ?

[RaybowTx]

I don't venture into the bow sites much anymore but have been more lately as fall is around the corner.  I've been outa trad archery in the serious mode anyway for a few years.  I still make a couple of bows a year and couple doz. arrows.  I'm making some lifestyle changes and trying to get back into the passion I really luv.

But the subject I am addressing about is all of the light weight bows.  You can't hardly find a bow 65#@28.  All the rage for light weight bows seems to be from the fear of shoulder injury or that the "efficiency" of "modern" trad bows are just fine for what ever game sought.

I'm not saying 45#'s are week individuals but why has the trend gone that direction?  

I have a clue.  And that clue is the entrance of compounders (modern day) where 'let offs' have been the only understanding of resistance on the bowstring that they can identify with.

Injuries are one thing.  But the light bow deal is another that I have a hard time with.

A 45# longbow cannot deliver a 600 grain arrow.  Some say a 45#er can meet or exceed performance from a 65# bow with a 600 grain arrow.

There is an element that is not discussed much, and that is 'buck shivers' or whatever you wana call it. I shoot bows that are 60-65# at my draw length.  If nerves hit and I draw two inches short then I'm still shooting a 58# bow with a 600 grain arrow and penetraition will not be compromissed if all other things are correct.

A 45#er will be shooting in the high 30#'s and using a 400 grain arrow will possibily never get to the vitals if a bone is hit.

No slam to the light weighters as they will probably enjoy.  But I'm curoius what the old timmers like myself have to say?

Thanx yall...............Ray...........

[ron w]

I shot 55-60# bows for some time, now I can't do it any more. I like to shoot every day and higher weights just beat me up to much. I work out at a gym 5 days a week and at 57 am in better shape than most. I still think that my 47-50# bows will do the job as well as any. I also think todays bows, because of design or materials perform a bit better than those of old.If you can shoot 60-65# bows God bless you, I just can't do any more!!!

[Builder]

I've been shooting a 48# bow with 150 carbon Express arrows, 50 grain brass insert and 200 grain head which puts the weight right around 600 grains. They fly perfect.  A couple of years ago after shoulder surgery I was shooting a 42# Blacktail, shot a 9 point Wisconsin whitetail that dressed out over 200lbs, shot completely through him. I have noticed that I never short draw my light bows like I would occasional do with my 60+ pound bows.
Years ago a 50lb bow was considered a heavy bow.

[RaybowTx]

Ron.  I understand and then again I don't.  Your up to the 50 pond area which is not 40 ish and less.  And if your hunting deer sized gmae with those weights then I think thats great.   Fred Bear built bows promoting 45# and plus.  At his age still shooting 60 pound bows before he passed I'm sure was rough. But I think it was because of his ethical beliefs and his opinion of performance.  Imagine what his shoulders felt like at 70?

Accuracy with sticks and strings are hard earned and the reputation of such is exploited by the anti's.  I had done some research on kill/harvest ratio's and at that time in the mid nineties trad. archery'ers had the best recovery rate compared to gun or compounds.  But...Those studies were done before the advent of the ultra-light bow craze of the last several years.  

I'm Curious and thats it.  Just curious....

Thanx, Yall................Ray.........

[George D. Stout]

Raybow, what goes around, comes around.  In the 1960's and a good part of the 70's, the biggest selling bows were 45#'ers.  Most folks can shoot them accurately and comfortably, and they will kill as quick as any other bow.  Actually it was the compound era that brought the heavy weight mindset, and it has taken another thirty years for people to understand you don't need heavy weights for North American Game.

Now I will take exception with your 2 inches short draw statement.  If you short draw a 65 pound bow by two inches, you won't have any more zing than a guy with a 50 pounder drawing it to full length.
In addition, the new low/no stretch strings have given many bows a new life and allow lighter weights to perform superbly.

I have hunted since 1965.  I don't know whether that makes me an old timer or not, but I've killed many deer with sub 50 pound bows and most were pass throughs.  It's the same old rhetoric.  And by the way, the new bows are not much faster than old bows, if at all....it's the new string material that enhances performance more than any one thing.

Maybe, Raybow, people are starting to understand the dynamics of the bow a little better in regard to full draws, power strokes, and struggles to pull heavy bows.  That 2" short draw is not uncommon, but it's because one can't handle the bow weight.  If you can handle your 65 or 70 pound bows, then go about it with some pride that you can keep yourself in good shooting shape.  But take a good look and don't criticize those who choose not to follow your path.  Especially, when history indicates yours is not the only way.

Hope you stay healthy and hearty.  At 63, I'm very happy with my sub 50 pound bows, and expect a pass through on my next whitetail this year.

[rainman]

In the 60's and 70's most people shot 40 to 50 lb bows.  Anything else was considered overkill.  If you can put and arrow through a Moose or Elk with 50lb bows and good arrows why go to 70 or eighty.  The design and material in the bows being made today deliver speeds equal to the older heavier bows in a lot of cases.  

Dan Raney

[trashwood]

RaybowTx, I understand where you are coming from.  Never the less at 66 yrs old I just don't have the horse power to shoot my 65# bow any longer.  I am shooting 45# Border Hex5 H and never shot better than I am shooting now.  I wish I had given up the 65# draw yrs ago now.

George and I ain't older, we just got smarter  

rusty

[celticknot]

I started out shooting close to a 60 pound bow and then injured my shoulder due to being over bowed now i like my 45# for everyday use to build my shoulder bck up to a 55 and higher. I will shoot a heavy pound bow again when my shoulders are strong enough. I think alot of the reason people don't shoot heavy weight bows is there aren't nearly as many manuel labor jobs and people sit at desks all day and don't have the physical strength to continually draw that much weight. And the fact that people are to "busy" to practice enough to build the proper strength to shoot a heavyier bow. That's my 2 cents.

[TradBowyer]

"And by the way, the new bows are not much faster than old bows, if at all....it's the new string material that enhances performance more than any one thing."...

sorry but this just isn't true. I have an old howatt in my basement 50@28. with a B50 string and 500 grain arrow, it shoots 160 fps. I have another modern day recurve that shoots the same specs and string 170+. 10 fps is a lot..that can translate to 10lbs of bow weight.

[waknstak IL]

It sure seems like there a lot 40-50 lb bear and pearson bows on the auction sites so somebody must have been shooting them back in the old days.

[DanDaMan]

ya know, I'm not an old timer.  I'm at the ripe old age of 35 and also in pretty good shape.  I tried the light bow thing and I can't shoot them worth a dang.  My Dryad stacks at my 29+ inch draw length to 68lbs.  I shot that bow better when I didn't know that but its still one of the best shooting bows I have.  I personally cant shoot lighter bows as well as I can heavy ones.  I like the string to rip from my fingers when I back tension into it.  Sure I can feel it long before I could feel a 45 to 50 lbs bow, but its all about what you shoot better.  Maybe when I'm older I will wish that I would have done different, but I think I owe it to the critters I hunt to shoot what I shoot best with as much arrow as I can sling.
Dan

[Bowtie]

I have to agree with many things that George said in his response. I'm no youngster anymore and can't handle the high poundage.... never could. All my traditional bows are 48-50 lbs. I've always tuned my bows / arrows to achieve the best performance, whether for 3D or hunting and know my limits.

[George D. Stout]

Tradbowyer, you cite one example.  There are lots of old bows that will shoot with the new ones.  And, I have an old Shakespeare Necedah, that was an average shooter.  I put 450+ string on it and it shoots like a bow ten pounds heavier.  I've shot hundreds of old bows since the early 1960's, so I think I have a pretty good handle on how a lot of them performed.  It's a little egocentric to think we are so much better today.

[Ben Maher]

i'm with george on this one . if you can comfortably shoot higher poundage more power to you , but i just returned from a trip here in Oz where with a 68" 50lb[ 27" ] at my draw 68" Hill style bow with 520 gn tapered cedars and a dacron string i shot and killed three hogs and one goat. all pass through's, no animal travelling over 40 yards.....would they have died any quicker if shot by more poundage bows ? don't think so . and the smallest of these hogs was 64 kgs ...the largest was a boar and he weighed in at over 92kgs.....
shot placement ,good sharp broadheads all the way ....
cheers
ben

[TradBowyer]

Mr. Stout,
"It's a little egocentric to think we are so much better today."

totally agree with you although i don't remember anyone saying we are so much better today and I'm definitely not doubting your expertise on archery I was just stating a fact. Kinda like the old muscle car vs new sport car debate.  That being said, There really hasn't been any major breakthroughs in bow making since Fred Bear introduced the mass produced bows using fiberglass. His design has definitely passed the test of time. To have bows shooting 30+ years later is something. We still don't know how these modern design and materials will stand up to time like those older models have.

[Curveman]

There is a difference between "need" and "can't."  What I mean is that it seems we have now a generation of kids who only exercise their thumbs! I believe the World Health Organization has us listed as the fattest, most out of shape generation/nation on the planet! I don't care what weight bow a man shoots. I do care that Americans are getting fatter and lazier. I do care that we seem to be raising a generation of thumb twiddlers whose idea of exercising is playing video games and text messaging while their Dad's rationalize shooting light bows to deny their shame that they CAN'T shoot heavy bows anymore! (I am excluding from this group those who are injured,aged etc.). I say this only because people have on these type posts made derisive type remarks regarding the "foolishness" of those who shoot heavy bows, etc. I happen to shoot a light bow. 62#s. No need to shoot a heavy bow-Gotta protect those joints.  But the point stands.  

[BTH]

I wonder what the little old short guy who shoots 70 lb Morrison's is up to these days...haven't seen him or heard about him lately...

My shoulder injury doesn't keep me from shooting my 57 lb Morrison. If I could afford new limbs I'd go heavier still. Even though Bob say's his lighter limbs flat out fling an arrow I just like using the heaviest I can...and I still can.

[Bjorn]

It seems to me there were more 45# bows around in the 60's than there are today. Let's face it there were more trad bows around in the 60's than there are today.
In my own experience I dropped down from a couple of 58# high end recurves to 50# R/D's about 4 years ago-both bows shot my 600gn arrows with the same authority.
In the meantime I took a seminar from Rod Jenkins which has extended my draw and improved my release. I have no qualms about bumping up my arrow weight a bit and having plenty of ooomph for Elk with my 50# bows.

[Don Stokes]

I've been bowhunting for 46 years. When I was a kid, the typical hunting bow was 40-45#. A local field archer shot a 60# bow, and everyone thought he was a real he-man.

When I got back into stickbows, I had used a compound for about 10 years. It was in the early 80's, and the shift back to "traditional" was under way. The typical converted archer cut his teeth on a compound, and wanted a bow just as strong. I hooked up with Dan Quillian about then, and his average bow sold was 65#. He blamed it on the compound mystique. When we started making the Superceder arrows, we had to use large diameters with barrel tapers to get the spines that these powerful bows required. We couldn't make enough high-spined shafts, and couldn't sell enough of the lighter spines.

Jump forward to the new century, and it's a totally different picture. When I started selling my remaining shafts last year, I immediately sold out of the 45-60# range. I still have quite a few in the 65-80# range... just not that much demand now. People have finally become educated enough to see that the high poundage is just not necessary for the average archer hunting deer. 45# was plenty in the 60's, and it's plenty now.

I'm shooting 40-60# bows now, instead of the 65-70# bows I shot in the past. Shoulder problems started with the heavy bows, and affected my shooting ability for years. With the lighter bows, I can enjoy archery again. The deer I have killed since scaling back are just as dead.

[LimbLover]

Just my .02 from a 27 year old guy that JUST started shooting ANY bow. Never shot a compound.

I'm a big guy - 6'4" 240lb with a 30"+ draw.

I shoot a 40-45# bow because I'm drawing over 50# with them.

Maybe people are just larger today on average? I've been shooting for a few months now and have only met two or three people that draw below 28".

Another thought - finger strength. I'm seeing more and more people with desk-type jobs shooting these days. I played college football and was a lineman - my back can handle damn near anything you throw at it, its my fingers that can't handle the high poundage draw weight.

A lot of people in our society never leave their computers throughout the day - that doesn't make for strong fingers.

In comparison - my dad is a Tailor and has been all his life. His fingers are like Rhino-hide and he can pull much heavier.

Just a thought.