Explain Footing on Carbon Arrows-Pics?

[Kingwouldbe]

This is a 2018 over the out-sert on my set up,  with the shaft all put together, this was my 1st attempt


I then tried two aluminum shafts with an insert in a 1716 and a 2018 over that, which I like, but I made it to long 3", I am going to shorten it to 1 3/4
 

This is how I taper the shaft, you can use a stone or a file, the file is faster.


This was my first try, they have 2018 shaft over an aluminum out-sert with a 125 grain steal adapter, a Grizzly 160& 190's with high EFOC, 3"4 fletch, shaft diameter is extremely small at .230 it fits inside an Easton excel.

The reason I cooked these up, is I want to give my arrow every advantage I can.

In Doctor Ashbeys report he states: Structural Integrity of the entire arrow system is the most important factor






I would like to try the internal footing with an external footing next.


This is a must read.
http://www.tradgang.com/ashby/2007update8.pdf

To sum up Doc's study( which is hard to do):

#1 supper strong shaft and components ( indestructible)
#2 Must fly like a lazerbeam
#3 20% EFOC or more
#4 A high Mechanical advantage, deep penetrating broadhead ( the worst 2 blade, beats the best 3&4 blade's)
#5 Skinny, skinny, skinny shaft that can handle the EFOC and fly like a lazerbeam
#6 Heavy arrows ( which is a big variable depending on what and where your hunting)let's say as heavy as you can with responsible trajectory) if I'm hunting out of a tree and I know I wont shoot over 15 yards, I would loud that puppy up 700-800+ grains, why? I don't have to worry about trajectory, my bow is quieter, I have more mass in motions, it's win win.

However if I have to shoot out to 30 yards ( we do it all the time out west on the ground)I might want better trajectory, so I might have to stay around 550-600 grains.

#7 I just coped the Doc. here: (A smooth, beard-shaving
sharp, honed and stropped edge works best. Its advantage is
most pronounced in fibrous tissues. In these it shows a 26%
advantage over a smoothly-filed sharp edge and a 60%-plus
advantage over 'Hill type' serrated edges. It's an advantage
available for all broadhead designs, for all arrows.
This has and will be argued tell Jesus comes back.)
Me I like stropped and polished for profuse hemorrhaging, it's science  :p  

If your a light tackle guy everything is even more important.

I know some of the rockheads will say the cave man didn't have any of this and he killed with a light bow and arrow etc.... hey go knock your self out if that's what you want, the information's there for the taking.

[cacciatore]

Thank you guys you are  very helpful like everybody here in this great site.Felix

[30coupe]

Wouldn't a 100 grain brass insert be about the same as internal footing?

[Kingwouldbe]

30coupe,
Your right about the weight, but not the integrity of the arrow.

As the arrow is moving forward, then comes to resistance's or stopping abruptly some thing has to give, usually it's the arrow coming over the insert or splitting at the insert, impeding penetration.

With external footing the integrity of the arrow stays together, thus, something else has to give, that would be bone or anything else in the way of the arrow, until it has used all of it's energy.

Does it really matter how sharp your broadhead is if the arrow snaps as it comes in contact with a big boar shield, shoulder blade, etc... and never gets to the vital organs.

From a tree stand I could see this happening a lot more often.

This is a scapula from a small boar I shot early'er this year in his bed at 9 yards, the arrow came through the top of his back through the scapula and cut his lung in two,
   

as you can see it cut off the ridge and still had enough energy to make it through the second bone and down into the lung.
   

The red arrow shows the path the real arrow took except he was on his other side.
   

CVD was the place I was hunting.
   

I thought I would show the arrow also, I got 17" of penetration and he snapped it off as he ran by me under a oak branch, broke the knock and striped off 2 of the feathers.

Oh! I also pilfered the broadhead which I don't like to do, but it was a 3 hog day and I needed it
LOL
 

[Red Boar]

Anyone worked out a good solution to footing MFX arrows with the HIT insert already installed? On new arrows without the HIT insert installed, should I foot first and then install the insert?

[Kingwouldbe]

Red Boar, I'm not sure about the MFX, but I'm sure someone here can give you the recipe.

I do a pre-fit before I glue every thing up, by the way I love Gorilla grip glue, I dip both parts in water and it expands to make a super tight fit.

[Steve O]

Red Boar,

Doesn't matter if you put the HIT inserts in before or after.  Make sure the front of the shaft and front of the foot are even and flat; I use a G5 ASD for that.  I run the back of the footing in my RCBS chamfer tool to put the taper on the backside of the foot.

[Steve O]

Gorilla glue is good, but I got a tip from Joe Coots about JB Weld...it is the BOMB!

[J-dog]

So you are screwing the BHd into the carbon still the footing just glued to the carbon arrow itself?

J

[Steve O]

That's the only way I've done it.  Looks like David has a couple other twists.

[30coupe]

I was just curious as to how an internal footing would help. Unless it is quite long and lightweight, it seems to me it wouldn't help any more than the brass insert.

Since I often use the inserts, I would have to foot externally. I still haven't found a good fit for my ICS Bowhunter 500s, but I think I will probably try to foot them eventually.

[ishoot4thrills]

Originally posted by Red Boar:
Anyone worked out a good solution to footing MFX arrows with the HIT insert already installed? On new arrows without the HIT insert installed, should I foot first and then install the insert?

Are you like me and concerned about getting glue inside the end of the arrow and then not being able to get all the glue out? Not sure if everyone knows what a "HIT" insert is. It's totally internal, as it goes in about an inch inside the end of the shaft. If I get glue inside my shaft with HIT insert already installed, and I don't get every bit of the glue out, I'm liable to not be able to get my screw-in point out either! That's why I am wondering if you gotta put glue on both surfaces, the inside of the footing and outside of the shaft, or can you get away with just putting glue on the outside of the carbon shaft?

[Steve O]

IS4T,

To install the external foot, I put a dab of JB Weld on the shaft and spin the foot on to get a nice even coat.  A little goes a long way!  Have a couple Q-tips ready if you are worried, but you will get the hang of it.  You don't need much epoxy/glue; you are only trying to fill in .001" of space.

[Kingwouldbe]

30COUPE,
Though I have not done internal footing yet ( but I did stay at a Holiday inn last night  :eek: ) LOL, it is about 6-7" and is tapered to dissipates the energy as it has room to give after about 2".

The long internal taper spreads out the energy like a flyrod does, it you footed a fly rod half was up the rod, it would snap right there, but if you taper it, it spreads out the same amount of energy over several inches.

So with external footing we have only moved this "hinge" down the shaft, it not a true fix.

If your worried about glue going into the threads get a tap and you can clean your threads any time, also I put a field point into the insert before I assemble it together, you don't have to put your insert in first, you can put it in after you have footed the carbon shaft.

[Kingwouldbe]

ttt

[Dave Bulla]

Hmmm, I wonder if a guy could talk to a local compounder archery shop and ask them to save all their cuttings from when they build up aluminum arrows for store customers?  Might be a good cheap way to get a bunch of different sized pieces just right for these type footings.

[coaster500]

I know this is a little off from the original post but I thought some of you might be interested.
I am new to traditional and have 4 to 5 dozen 55/75 gold tip pros from my compound. I tried to make them work with heavy 200 to 300 grain heads and found that they broke up very easy. I found your various posts on footing carbons and found some 11/32 x .014 round brass tubing and guess what? I cut pieces little over 3/4" and the came in at 50 grains. I used a plumbers tubing cutter and the deburing tool from my reloading stuff. Here is the result. Using the Dynamic spine calculator (set up for Trads not Pros) 545gr arrow with 302 grains up front for 24.1 % f.o.c. The weight was off because pros weigh less than trads but they shoot perfect from my bow.
Like I said I know this is a little off the subject but those of us from the dark side have a chance to bring some wheel bow stuff into the light    )

Heres a picture of the done deal.


 


http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/coaster500photos/Picture004.jpg

[L82HUNT]

ttt

[rammvan1]

I've got Easton Traditional Only 400's. They take 5/16 inserts. Anybody know what size aluminum I would use for a footing on these?

[COOCH]

Hey King you've got to try an internal footing I can't believe what a difference it makes.I had some precut easton FMJ's  I needed to stiffen a bitJB welded a 7" piece of oak  dowel and got the dynamic spine right (bullet holes thru paper)It worked well but moved the break point further back.The I tried tapering them and there almost bomb proof.I just started putting a 2" external foot over that and haven't broken one since.I'll try to get some pics up this sounds to confusing.