Pocketed G-10 Riser

[Watsonjay]

The other post on here about using cherry for a riser got me thinking about a bunch of soft wood I had like ambrosia maple. With cnc, as I have the shape of my riser drawn out I could draw a shape perfect enough to fit completely inside the riser after in its final shape. I could then cut the G-10 to this shape and then pocket out the riser blank half glue in the g-10 then glue the two halves into a standard riser blank. I could then cut out the profile and finish shaping by hand without ever exposing the g-10. Currently i drill my limb bolt inert holes just under half inch and tap with 1/2 x 10 for the jnserts. I am guessing I would need a carbide bit to drill the g-10.

For those of you that have messed with g-10. I appreciate any tips. Also how thick of a wood gap before g-10 do you think I would need for the limb pad 1/4" Wood before g-10?

[Kirkll]

Sounds like a cool experiment to me. I can't quite picture the procedure for embedding the G-10, but the theory is good. Are you talking about embedding an offset I beam that doesn't show in the strike plate area? If so you could just use an 1/8" thick I beam or possibly 3/16, and still get an 1/8" past center shelf cut out using a std 1.75" riser block. You wouldn't need much covering the g10

That's always been an issue with G-10 that has been a love / hate thing for me. The  Exposed I beams in the lamination can easily crack the finish along the lamination line. And sometimes open up a bit. It's typically moisture content changes in the wood that cause this. Even getting the wood bone dry before your build, it can happen after it's shipped to different climates. Sometime years later. Wood moves... The G10 doesn't move.

But the stuff mills nicely with std carbide tipped router bits, and drills easily with most steel bits, as long as they are sharp. High speed router bits, but slower speed on drilling is the ticket.

That G-10 is getting damn expensive though... I just dropped $600 on a couple 3'x4' sheets in 1/4" and 3/8". But this should last me awhile.

[Watsonjay]

Yes. My thought was to use 2x3/4" and not quite cut to center but if you think 1/8" g-10 would be enough I could use 1" and 1/2" and pocket into the one inch. That would leave an 1/8" between center and g-10 or use 1/4" g-10 and do 1/8" on each side. I may just try it.

I bought some chunks from big jim a few years back and never used.

[Noah70]

I remember seeing a video of a riser build, I think it was Stalker Stickbows, where South made a cut into the back of the riser with a circular saw, offset enough to accomodate the 1/8" past center, and then simply glued in a matching piece of glass or G10. This insert is then hidden by the riser overlays later in the  build. Seems much simpler?

[Watsonjay]

I remember seeing a video of a riser build, I think it was Stalker Stickbows, where South made a cut into the back of the riser with a circular saw, offset enough to accomodate the 1/8" past center, and then simply glued in a matching piece of glass or G10. This insert is then hidden by the riser overlays later in the  build. Seems much simpler?

So it would be a little semi-circular chunk in it? Was that video on here or elsewhere , I found one but didn't have that process in it? did it go into the limb pads as that is my other concern of the wood being too soft to securely hold the bolt inserts for the limbs.

[Watsonjay]

Kinda my vision 1/4 in on most sides the black line would be pocketed out and 1/8-1/4" g-10 glued in to be completely invisible and surrounded by mostly seamless wood.

[Watsonjay]

Sorry

[Kirkll]

I remember seeing a video of a riser build, I think it was Stalker Stickbows, where South made a cut into the back of the riser with a circular saw, offset enough to accomodate the 1/8" past center, and then simply glued in a matching piece of glass or G10. This insert is then hidden by the riser overlays later in the  build. Seems much simpler?

So it would be a little semi-circular chunk in it? Was that video on here or elsewhere , I found one but didn't have that process in it? did it go into the limb pads as that is my other concern of the wood being too soft to securely hold the bolt inserts for the limbs.

If you are using the std 7/8"-1" long 1/2-13 threaded inserts and capping your limb pads with phenolic, you shouldn't need worry about threads tearing out. I've done many of them using softer riser woods like myrtle wood, curly maple, sycamore, Western black walnut, apple and other fruit woods too. Western english walnut is kind of soft too. But beautiful stuff.

but some guys use those short self threading furniture inserts about a 1/2" long. I was always leary about those on higher draw weight TD over 50#. i stick with the 1/2 -13 threads and run a tap into the limb pads, and use a thick viscosity super glue to install them.

I know you are still playing with your new cnc toy, and having fun with it, but seriously... i think just laminating an offset G-10 i-beam in your riser block, and capping the belly and back with overlays to hide it would be a lot simpler. only place you'll see the G-10 is running through your grip, and the back of the strike area.

[Watsonjay]

I remember seeing a video of a riser build, I think it was Stalker Stickbows, where South made a cut into the back of the riser with a circular saw, offset enough to accomodate the 1/8" past center, and then simply glued in a matching piece of glass or G10. This insert is then hidden by the riser overlays later in the  build. Seems much simpler?

So it would be a little semi-circular chunk in it? Was that video on here or elsewhere , I found one but didn't have that process in it? did it go into the limb pads as that is my other concern of the wood being too soft to securely hold the bolt inserts for the limbs.

If you are using the std 7/8"-1" long 1/2-13 threaded inserts and capping your limb pads with phenolic, you shouldn't need worry about threads tearing out. I've done many of them using softer riser woods like myrtle wood, curly maple, sycamore, Western black walnut, apple and other fruit woods too. Western english walnut is kind of soft too. But beautiful stuff.

but some guys use those short self threading furniture inserts about a 1/2" long. I was always leary about those on higher draw weight TD over 50#. i stick with the 1/2 -13 threads and run a tap into the limb pads, and use a thick viscosity super glue to install them.

I know you are still playing with your new cnc toy, and having fun with it, but seriously... i think just laminating an offset G-10 i-beam in your riser block, and capping the belly and back with overlays to hide it would be a lot simpler. only place you'll see the G-10 is running through your grip, and the back of the strike area.

Ive attached a pic of what I've been using. I had to try several different taps and the 1/2 x 10 tap finally fit the threads. I have made 3 takedown risers now, two of which were in the limb design thread. I haven't capped either. It sounds like I should though. They were both spectraply with diamondwood i-beams. After I tap them I verify the insert threads to the bottom and into the countersink enough to be flush the I use a metal to wood smoothin epoxy to secure it. It sounds like i should cap with a wood or phenolic then countersink. Thank you for the advice.

I do think it would be cool to have riser that looks all wood with no riser cap and have g-10 with no sign of it.

[Watsonjay]

Im going to try it. I have some spalted tamarind that can use sone strength so what the heck. Ill give it a go. Ill take pics

[Kirkll]

I'm curious how much room you are leaving for your epoxy in capsulation in that G10 sandwich?  Don't want all the jelly squirting out.  

[Watsonjay]

I'm curious how much room you are leaving for your epoxy in capsulation in that G10 sandwich?  Don't want all the jelly squirting out.  

Almost none. I contemplated ordering some total boat as I heard it is stonger and I dont need flexibility of ea40.  Maybe i will leave 1/16 on all sides??

[Kirkll]

I'm curious how much room you are leaving for your epoxy in capsulation in that G10 sandwich?  Don't want all the jelly squirting out.  

Almost none. I contemplated ordering some total boat as I heard it is stonger and I dont need flexibility of ea40.  Maybe i will leave 1/16 on all sides??

EA 40 is tough to beat. I'll be curious to see how it comes out.

[Watsonjay]

I'm curious how much room you are leaving for your epoxy in capsulation in that G10 sandwich?  Don't want all the jelly squirting out.  

Almost none. I contemplated ordering some total boat as I heard it is stonger and I dont need flexibility of ea40.  Maybe i will leave 1/16 on all sides??

EA 40 is tough to beat. I'll be curious to see how it comes out.

Ok. Ill stick with it.

[Watsonjay]

Started on the riser. Had to order a dust hood for the cnc and a bit to cut g10. Dust hood is in so I am starting the footing for the riser. Using black palm and spalted tamarind, both soft woods. Not sure what footer style is called but it could be done with a swing jig but the top is wider than the bottom. After I glue it back together I'll cut the block to 1-1/4" thick and cut a 1/8" pocket into it for the g10 before gluing riser block back together.

Im not sure if I should glue g10 in and let cure before gluing the rest of the block back together in case of air bubbles or just glue g10 in and rest of block at the same time to bring it back to 1.5" thick.

[Watsonjay]

The chunk I am cutting from a piece of black palm

[Watsonjay]

Gluing up

[Kirkll]

What thickness of g-10 are you going to use in the pocket?

A Question for you.

 Typically when you build a footed riser it's done in two separate lay ups with contrasting wood colors. Actually it's 4 separate lay ups, and you end up with two sister riser blocks when you are done, with no wasted materials except saw dust.
Of course with using both a footing, and an offset ibeam there would be 6 lay ups for two risers.

I'm curious why you are wasting wood and only building one at a time?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/kM6PNvCnPRy56W6Z7

[Watsonjay]

I had some black palm that was only 2" wide so not wide enough for a full riser. I will save the center extra pieces from the other block for a different riser though. That is the nice thing about the cnc if you have a small piece of wood it is easy to cut the exact shape from the design.

On the g10 im not sure. What do you think?  1/8", 3/8, or 1/4? Ive never used it.  I just want 1/8 gap of wood between it and centershot which is easily adjusted for.

[Watsonjay]

The wide brown part will be at the top swooping back towards him in the sight window

Next step cut at around an inch and cut the g10 pocket.