Arrows too light for hunting?

[SnakeEyes]

Hi. Just looking for feedback. Is my arrow weight too low?  My setup:

-Black Widow KB 45#
-Draw length : 28.5"
-Arrows: Safari Tuff 500sp, 50gr insert, 125gr head

My total arrow weight is 400gr.  I've killed a few does this season with it. Did not get pass throughs. Magnus Stinger Single Bevel head. 

I tried more weight up front and it seemed to negatively impact arrow flight. I'm wondering if I need to get the 400sp, leave them long and add 200gr up front.

Thank you

[EHK]

Maybe it's the head?  Those Stinger single bevels look kind of blunt up front compared to a standard stinger or a zwickey.  I'm shooting longbows in the low 40's with a total arrow weight around around 10 gpp, so not much more than you and with VPA 3 blades or Stinger 2 blades (with bleeders) typically get pass throughs.   

[Terry Green]

If a heavier head wont fly, my  suggestion would be a heavier shaft.

Best of luck. 

[Tajue17]

1st id bare shaft tune an arrow just to be sure the string nock is in the right place,, if its too high I had problems with cast using heavier points.    also the description of you're arrow setup I almost shooting the same thing but gold tip classics and Im 50gr more than what you are getting but I can double check that set up later.

if you are tuned to that arrow instead of messing with another brand just go to the hardware store and get a spool of the cheapest weed wacker line,,,,,pull nock off arrow and put them in there one at a time and cut them an 1/8" longer than flush,,,, try 1 length at a time by shooting each arrow looking at the trajectory or cast and you should be able to fit 3 total the arrow weight will come up a lot and spine isn't effected that I could ever tell.

[Kirkll]

Personally I don't think you should have a problem with 9 gpp arrow weight. If you are getting good arrow flight, you may want try a different broad head.

Did you actually measure the draw weight at your draw length?

[Car54]

Can you cut some length off the arrow? Then you can add more upfront weight to get a heavier arrow. I like a heavier arrow, but, you might not. Good luck

[Roger Norris]

That seems heavy enough to me.....make sure you are tuned right. You might be losing energy because the arrow isn't flying as straight as it could be (regardless of what some might say, no arrow flies perfect)

[BAbassangler]

The perfect post, just what I was looking for, the same 45#/28.5".
I'm sure my bow isn't as efficient as your Widow; I'm shooting 75+125 up front on a 500 Axis.  You hit the nail on the head with having to leave the next spine-up long...took forever for me to figure that out!
My same 29" 460gr 500 arrow, jumps to 670gr 400sp when I keep the same length...It's like it just refuses to bend until you give it no choice?? (275 + 115 insert).

Glad to read adequate performance on the rounded Magnus SB's, I'm doing anything pointy and serrated, hoping for the best but no actual results from me.  Going to have to try Victory Trad 450's, probably be a better compromise on weight and speed.

[Orion]

Hmmm.  You killed the does.  So what if you didn't get pass throughs.  That's more a function of where the arrow hits/travels in the deer.  I've hit the offside shoulder/leg bone with equipment heavier than you're shooting. The arrow lodges in the offside shoulder and doesn't pass through. Still a dead critter in short order. In short.  What you have works.  Why mess with it? 

[Stringwacker]

This is a good thread as I'm a 'work in process' trying to work through the issues of shooting a lighter bow than in the past. I've always worked with a mindset that 500 grains is light and 600 grains is heavy...and tried to find a middle ground in all of that.

The 47lb @ 27" Black Widow bow that I'm shooting now requires a carbon 'in between arrow'...meaning it weight tunes well with a 465 grain arrow in a 500 spine; and a 635 grain arrow in a 400 spine; neither of which hits my historical sweet spot.

I'm shooting 2018's this year and I get a  great tune at 528 grains. The aluminum shaft works well with a rather low (160 grain up front counting all hardware) FOC. It has had me thinking all deer season would a 465 grain carbon arrow with a little higher FOC work as good or better; despite the lower overall arrow weight?

This relates to the OP question in that I'm rethinking the old norms of required arrow weights...and even EFOC. I suspect the bow weight and arrow weight thresholds may be far lower than I have always thought...especially with two blade broadheads.  The OP's 400 grain arrow seems way too light but as I just mentioned in the previous sentence, I'm opening up to new ideas.

If it works....well it works. I'm following this thread.

[BAbassangler]

I hear ya, Stringwacker, on the inbetween arrows.  Heavy hitters get 300/330/340/400.  A lighter gpi 450 would be awesome.  I'm in that 465 vs 670 zone too.  I might play with the numbers and take a pound or so off the limbs to get my tune with another 25-50 grains.

[BAbassangler]

3 Rivers calculator has me dropping to 40# to get another 25gr...ain't happening. I'd have to buy new limbs, and I like 45# in a longbow, it'll shoot the same arrows as my 39-40# recurve.  Soooo, 465gr it is.  A 25 gr half out and I can do single bevel Grizzly with an AL insert, and anything Magnus with insert changes.

[Rob DiStefano]

I prefer a heavier GPP arrow as I find that more forgiving, something like 11-12 GPP.  My current 42# longbow (at my draw length, of course) gets fed 470 grain arrows that are Surewood 5/16" Doug fir with 125 grain heads and my burnt cut 4" 3-fletch high feather.

[Friend]

This proposed arrow should be close:

BE Carnivore 400...29.5"s
75 gn Brass insert
250 gn point
4" fletch
28% FOC
545 gn Total
11.7 gpp

[Ryan Rothhaar]

I'd look at the broadhead before getting carried away building arrows. It's simple to test. Take a piece of medium thick leather and push your single bevel stinger thru by hand on an arrow and see how much force it takes. Do the same with a double bevel cut on contact head. If the single bevel more blunt head is lots harder to push thru then there's your answer.

When I was a kid Dad had guys do this at archery shows using a piece of deer leather and a pyramid type replaceable blade head. Then he'd give them a sharp Snuffer. That simple test sold lots of heads for him.

R

[Rob DiStefano]

I also "tanto" 3-blade heads to beef up the point for bone penetration.  A faster way to both sharpen and tanto the tip is with a stationary belt sander (or clamp down a hand belt sander).  After laying down the BH flat on the moving belt for sharpening, slightly tilt up its butt end to best tanto angle the tip - do this for all 3 sides of the BH.

[BAbassangler]

I just remembered...from a YT video...Traditions Only Barebow shafts were reviewed as slightly larger diameter and stiffer than similar arrows, due to the color wrap.  The YT'er got maybe an extra 50gr than a standard 500/.204 shaft.  He said it spined like a .450.

[Longbowwally]

I'd look at the broadhead before getting carried away building arrows. It's simple to test. Take a piece of medium thick leather and push your single bevel stinger thru by hand on an arrow and see how much force it takes. Do the same with a double bevel cut on contact head. If the single bevel more blunt head is lots harder to push thru then there's your answer.

When I was a kid Dad had guys do this at archery shows using a piece of deer leather and a pyramid type replaceable blade head. Then he'd give them a sharp Snuffer. That simple test sold lots of heads for him.
R

Many years ago at the Dixie Deer Classic your dad had me do this very thing - and you are right Ryan it sold me on cut on contact heads and especially Snuffer heads!

[Tim Finley]

Orions right why do you need a pass through . Ive shot more than a couple hundred animals and in my experience pass throughs are rare, complete penetration almost always.  Maybe some are calling complete penetration pass throughs . To me a pass through is the arrow completely exiting the deer . My biggest blood trails the arrow stayed in the animal . I think your combo is right a small three blade like the Woodsman or VPA will maybe give you more penetration .