thoughts on Ashby setup?

[dddavila17]

A similar but modified version of my earlier post.

Bowhunting setup: Ashby Style
- Recurve bow (52 lb @ 28 in) —> Bear Supermag 48
- My draw length = 28 in
- broadhead (250 grains) Iron Will wide single bevel left (no bleeders)
- impact collar - Type C (25 grain)
- HIT insert (100 grain)
- Arrow shaft - Easton Carbon Legacy Fred Eichler Edition (340 spine, 30 in * 9.8 grains per inch (GPI) =  294 grains)
- Fletching - left helical (cumulative 9 grains) —> this is an estimate from online research
- Lighted nock (21 grain)
- Total arrow weight =  699 grains
- grains per pound (GPP): 13.44
- FOC = 24.83% (theoretical estimate)

I am fascinated by the heavily weighted, high FOC, maximal penetration approach of Dr. Ed Ashby (even at the expense of speed and trajectory). I will be hunting mostly whitetail < 25 yards. Is this overkill? It seems like the best way to ensure pass-through shots.

[BUCKY]

I like it. Im shooting #40 560gr arrow. Thats 14gpp

[Wudstix]

I have been getting pass throughs with arrows ranging from 11-12 GPP from bows of 63-67#.  Latest bow a Moosejaw Razorback 60# has not been tested on game yet, but with 625-645 grain arrows tail tapered with 160-190 grain heads seems to be snappy.

[Ben Maher]

Sounds cool - if that is your thing, go for it eh. As long as flight is good they'll hit like freight trains .

I am more of a 9-11 gpp guy.

[LookMomNoSights]

A similar but modified version of my earlier post.

Bowhunting setup: Ashby Style
- Recurve bow (52 lb @ 28 in) —> Bear Supermag 48
- My draw length = 28 in
- broadhead (250 grains) Iron Will wide single bevel left (no bleeders)
- impact collar - Type C (25 grain)
- HIT insert (100 grain)
- Arrow shaft - Easton Carbon Legacy Fred Eichler Edition (340 spine, 30 in * 9.8 grains per inch (GPI) =  294 grains)
- Fletching - left helical (cumulative 9 grains) —> this is an estimate from online research
- Lighted nock (21 grain)
- Total arrow weight =  699 grains
- grains per pound (GPP): 13.44
- FOC = 24.83% (theoretical estimate)

I am fascinated by the heavily weighted, high FOC, maximal penetration approach of Dr. Ed Ashby (even at the expense of speed and trajectory). I will be hunting mostly whitetail < 25 yards. Is this overkill? It seems like the best way to ensure pass-through shots.

Man that's some heavy stuff right there 
Curious, what distance / range is your sweet spot or personal "limit" I'd guess you could call it?  And ,  how is your trajectory?

[Kirkll]

Absolutely over kill...That  set up will definitely put the arch back into archery for you though....   Good luck

[Sapper1980]

It's a Whitetail deer...it doesn't take much to get a pass through.   My self, I would look for a balance.

[BUCKY]

Yep 100% overkill! But my arrows bare shaft great,cut through the wind and at my 15 yd hunting distance dont drop. Also my bow is dead quiet.

[Mo_coon-catcher]

Overkill, ya probably. But I've been shooting 700gr or more for a while and if your shooting a 60# or heavier bow your really not giving up much for that extra punch. Last doe I shot with a 700gr arrow from a 65# bow broke her humerus in the offside. So you have that potential from the heavies. This year I'm using 950+gr arrows from my 65# ELB. Mostly just cuz I wanted to try some hickory arrows and that's just what they turned out to be after turning the shafts and tuning them. And they're fast enough at 145 fps for sub 20 yard shots. If I was gonna shoot out to 25 yards I would probably want an arrow that shoots atleast 165fps as that seems to be where the trajectory at that range starts to flatten out a bit. My opinion is to go the heaviest arrow that gives you a trajectory at your distances your comfortable with.

I hope that helps some

Kyle

[Hud]

This is for those that want to hunt out west, or do.  Fred Bear and Glenn St Charles hunted with fiberglass then Easton aluminum arrows with Bear Razorheads after it came out in 1957. Glenn used a Bear Kodiak with dacron string, and draw wt. around 57 lbs, while Fred preferred a heavier weight up to 65# and 75# in Africa. Their arrow wt was mostly 9 -  10 GPI. They were spot and shoot hunters and their range did exceed 20 yds. Fred used to say, the arrow weight and sharp broadhead were critical. I don't recall either men endorsing what Ashby recommend based on his heavy bows, and the buffalo he hunted. Your free to use whatever you want, even if it limits your range, and method of hunting, but in the open country, like the west, why do it?  Shoot straight.

[JamesD]

My hunting partner doubled lunged a whitetail @ 36 yards last November.
40# Bear takedown recurve
680 grain arrows
Surewood shafts
235 up front.

Range won't be a problem with heavies.

[LookMomNoSights]

Just something to think about and this is just my take .........  the reason why we impose most of our shot distances on game, our limits some say, is because of trajectory.  If you knew your arrow would fly perfectly straight with no arc of trajectory (like a lazer beam),  do you think you'd feel comfortable stretching out any distance limit you've imposed on yourself to ensure a solid effective ethical hit?  I bet most would!  I know there is a window in the middle of being too light and not good for the bow and certainly not optimal for hunting on one end of the scale,   and an anvil on a chop stick that hits like a hammer providing you drop it straight down out of the tree stand on the other end of that scale.  I believe we can have our cake and eat it too with this.  You can have the arrow with some FOC or overall mass weight that is more than suitable for the hunting situation AND not compromise too much if at all,  in trajectory.   I think the arrow set up that gets you that is 1 the perfect arrow and 2,  will kill anything in the woods.....anywhere.  I would never push so far as to drastically hamper trajectory.  I might add,  that reasonable trajectory is much appreciated,  when you judge the distance to 19,  but it was really 24.

[Terry Green]

The ash study was not meant for stateside game. If you can't pass a Zwikey Delta four blade through a wightail, you have serious issues with your setup.

I was killing stuff with four blades well before the ashby study came out, so I don't even consider it for what I do here.

[Terry Green]

He claims three blades are even worse.. I killed this with a Woodsman, three blade....

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[Ryan Rothhaar]

If you like the Ashby stuff it kind of defeats the point to choose a short stubby broadhead like you mentioned in the OP.

I think guys get carried away with this stuff. It's like using a sledgehammer to drive a thumbtack.

With that bow, low 50's poundage, lower efficiency bow design for a recurve, hunting whitetails I'd target an arrow around 500-550 grains with a narrower 3 blade, something like a woodsman or a 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 inch VPA, something like that. Good balance of weight, trajectory and cutting diameter.

You aren't trying to shoot through a zebra lengthwise.  Lots more deer are lost every year to hitting them too far back than from lack of penetration. For too far back the bigger the broadhead the better.

R

[Terry Green]

If you like the Ashby stuff it kind of defeats the point to choose a short stubby broadhead like you mentioned in the OP.

I think guys get carried away with this stuff. It's like using a sledgehammer to drive a thumbtack.

With that bow, low 50's poundage, lower efficiency bow design for a recurve, hunting whitetails I'd target an arrow around 500-550 grains with a narrower 3 blade, something like a woodsman or a 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 inch VPA, something like that. Good balance of weight, trajectory and cutting diameter.

You aren't trying to shoot through a zebra lengthwise.  Lots more deer are lost every year to hitting them too far back than from lack of penetration. For too far back the bigger the broadhead the better.

R

Yes and absolutely the last paragraph!!!!!!!!

Animals step forward way more than they do back.

That fact was loged on Tradgang over twenty years ago. More animals step forward than back.

[Maclean]

The Ashby studies have validity but you have to read the entire contents and realize that the conclusions are based on a very specific application. The "Ashby Arrow" (heavy, weight forward, long single bevel broadhead) is for large, heavy boned animals typically found in Africa. Very few animals in North America fit that description. The only time I use an Ashby Arrow is when I'm hunting big bull elk. I know plenty of hunters that have dropped big bulls without an Ashby arrow, but I prefer the extra insurance if I happen to hit bone. You certainly don't need it for smaller animals, especially whitetails. YMMV

[Wudstix]

Yes, you have to read the whole study.  It was applicable to large heavy boned game.  Getting arrows flying straight and fast is more important for most North American game.  Higher GPP will definitely quiet your bow and that is a bit more critical for close range game.  Moose may be the animal that a heavier arrow will help with.  Ryan has been having good results with his set up on moose, so there is that.

[Michpatriot]

The real trick is removing weight to reach higher FOC..less fletchings length..lighter nock..rear tapered shaft..

[Maclean]

The real trick is removing weight to reach higher FOC..less fletchings length..lighter nock..rear tapered shaft..

I love shooting wood shafts, but the easiest way to solve that puzzle is carbon shafts, especially with heavier draw weight bows. I tried everything to build an Ashby arrow with wood shafts but ultimately they always ended up too heavy. Carbons are the ticket for that game because their gpi are much less than wood.