Can you shoot the difference in straightness tolerances?

[Arctic Hunter]

I’ve often wondered if this makes a huge difference out of a stickbow. With a 30” draw and only cutting 1-1.5” off the shaft, I have generally used carbon shafts with a .003 tolerance, and they seem to shoot as well as I can. At least at the ranges I typically shoot.

Can anybody here tell a difference from .001-.006?

[streamguy]

great question.  I can't - at least not at the ranges i typically shoot - out to 30 yd.  and If I'm shooting further while stumping or messing around, there are too many variables.

But maybe longer range target archers, shooting at 70m or more, can tell?

[McDave]

Straightness, spine and weight are all important characteristics of arrow shafts.  I've bought .003 straightness carbon shafts for a long time, and while spine and weight might be close within a particular dozen shafts, some that I buy a year later might be enough different in spine and weight to matter, especially when they get mixed in with the ones I bought a year before as replacements.  I would rather be shooting .006 straightness shafts that are all within close tolerances of weight and spine than .003 straightness shafts that are not within the same close tolerance of weight and spine.

OTOH, Howard Hill was famous for going through onlookers at his  exhibitions, borrowing arrows from different people, and hitting targets with these mismatched arrows.  I think it's a stretch to think that if we start shooting mismatched arrows, we can learn to shoot like Howard Hill, however.  🤪

[katman]

Nope

[M60gunner]

Not really

[Orion]

Me either.  And unless your name is Brady Ellison, I'll have a hard time believing you if you say you can.   

[Kelly]

No I can’t either.

Just remember that most straightness tolerances are listed as +/- so .003 is really .006 or .005 is really .010

[Kirkll]

I do not think straightness tolerances are as critical as spine tolerance. Unfortunately all carbon shafts are not created equally. I honestly don’t think very many archers could tell the difference between. .006 and .003 straightness if the arrows were tuned properly……

But…. I think there are a lot of archers that just “Assume” that when they buy a dozen carbon shafts, that the spine is closely matched. If you take a dozen carbon shafts and use a spine tester on them, then rotate them 90 degrees at a time and check them again…. You would be absolutely shocked how much difference there is in some of these shafts.

Buying a lower tolerance in straightness shaft will typically make matching  your spine tolerances easier to do… but I don’t think the average archer ever takes it that far…. 

For the guys that are quite happy with a 6” group of arrows at 20 yards and an occasional flier… Nope…. It don’t mater at all.  For the guys that want a 50 cent piece sized group, and rather shoot a dime spot…. The extra time and effort is well spent balancing those arrows and matching weight and spine as close as possible.

.02 cents worth…

[STICKBENDER98]

Having shot wood, aluminum, and carbons, and I'm no expert by any means, The only difference I can see is when I shoot a heavy wood or aluminum compared to carbon is the drop because of the total weight of the arrow.  If I shoot arrows of similar weight I don't notice it as much, and with all this said, I have shot .003 and .006 carbons and don't remember seeing any difference, the .003's were left over from my compound days 30 some odd years ago, may still have some laying around somewhere.  IMHO if you tune whatever shaft you are using to the bow you are shooting, you wont see any significant difference.


Jason

[Steve D]

 No

[katman]

I agree with Kirk, spine is most important.  All my shafts get shot bareshaft, that way I am dealing with dynamic spine. Most go right down the middle as I have aligned the shaft with stiff side out. The ones that don't can sometimes be adjusted by nock rotation, If not they are tomatoe stakes.

[Friend]

Spine target and consistancy are the more important factors.

A study having 5 Olympic archers shooting 50 yards whole increasing the straightness. All 5 were able to keep the arrows in the bullseye until the shafts exceeded +/- .005.

[Arctic Hunter]

Spine target and consistancy are the more important factors.

A study having 5 Olympic archers shooting 50 yards whole increasing the straightness. All 5 were able to keep the arrows in the bullseye until the shafts exceeded +/- .005.

I’d be interested in reading that study. Do you recall where you saw it?

[Friend]

I cannot recall where I had encountered the article. I had the same question as you in 2014 as I was preparing for a hunt in New Zealand. The article would have been written in 2014 or before. Personally, I have had numerous bare shaft-only sessions out to 40 yards shooting multiple +/- .003 shafts. The +/- .003 shafts have never been an issue. Can't even say with any certainty that any +/-.006 shafts that I have bare shafted caused me any issues.

[Arctic Hunter]

I ended up diving on in a rabbit hole looking for it. I did come across this article by Rick McKinney who was an Olympic shooter in 1984. Worth the read if you were wondering.

https://archerycoachesguildblog2.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/tl_app5.pdf

[Kirkll]

I agree with Kirk, spine is most important.  All my shafts get shot bareshaft, that way I am dealing with dynamic spine. Most go right down the middle as I have aligned the shaft with stiff side out. The ones that don't can sometimes be adjusted by nock rotation, If not they are tomatoe stakes.

A lot of guys struggle with bare shaft tunning, and lets face it. It takes time to bare shaft all your arrows consistently.... What i found was that setting up the spine tester with  dozen new shafts, and matching the spine up as close as possible with the stiff side towards the shelf, that i can bare shaft tune a couple shafts for correct length and tip weight, and the rest fly exactly the same without bare shafting.

After reading that article i was surprised that he said he'd rather be on the stiff side on spine, than the weak side. I have always bare shafted to the weak side, and after fletching they are perfect.
Great article.... btw...

Kirk

[Arctic Hunter]

I agree with Kirk, spine is most important.  All my shafts get shot bareshaft, that way I am dealing with dynamic spine. Most go right down the middle as I have aligned the shaft with stiff side out. The ones that don't can sometimes be adjusted by nock rotation, If not they are tomatoe stakes.

A lot of guys struggle with bare shaft tunning, and lets face it. It takes time to bare shaft all your arrows consistently.... What i found was that setting up the spine tester with  dozen new shafts, and matching the spine up as close as possible with the stiff side towards the shelf, that i can bare shaft tune a couple shafts for correct length and tip weight, and the rest fly exactly the same without bare shafting.

After reading that article i was surprised that he said he'd rather be on the stiff side on spine, than the weak side. I have always bare shafted to the weak side, and after fletching they are perfect.
Great article.... btw...

Kirk

I’ve threatened to make a spine tester for years for that very reason. It seems easier than nock tuning and bare shafting every arrow like I normally do. If nothing else, I could needlessly nerd out on something else archery related for a while.

[Kirkll]

Building a spine tester is very simple to do… you don’t have to get all fancy about it either…

 A couple of shelf brackets mounted on a board spaced 26-28” apart, a 2 pound weight, and a dial indicator to measure deflection accurately is all you need.

You can Google home made spine testers and come up with all sorts of ideas, and geek out if you wish…. But it’s well worth the effort to get a beautifully matched set of carbon shafts. It’s crazy how much different the spine is just rotating the shafts. Even on high end shafts it makes a huge difference.    You won’t regret it… Kirk

[Hud]

2x what Kirkll said, and as shown on Smarter Everyday, Episode 136, (Archer's Paradox). Byron Ferguson explains how the Archer's Paradox is affected by the spine of the arrow, and why it shoots offline.  I assume, he is using his Heavy Graphite arrows. He concludes by saying he keeps the spine within +/- 2 lbs. He knows the distance or is able to adjust for it,   and accuracy is affected less by weight than by spine.

[Arctic Hunter]

Building a spine tester is very simple to do… you don’t have to get all fancy about it either…

 A couple of shelf brackets mounted on a board spaced 26-28” apart, a 2 pound weight, and a dial indicator to measure deflection accurately is all you need.

You can Google home made spine testers and come up with all sorts of ideas, and geek out if you wish…. But it’s well worth the effort to get a beautifully matched set of carbon shafts. It’s crazy how much different the spine is just rotating the shafts. Even on high end shafts it makes a huge difference.    You won’t regret it… Kirk

I think you just gave me a project for the weekend.