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Author Topic: Guard on Hidden Tang (lots of pics)Finished knife photo added  (Read 10843 times)

Offline Lin Rhea

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Someone asked me to take a few pictures while I was making and installing a guard soooooo......

This may not be the only way, but it's my way. It suits my tools and available materials. I've never watched anyone else while making one so there might be some things you see that are different and somewhat crude. I learned this by trial and mostly error.

Again this is a hidden or stick tang application. Other steps and stages would apply for Full Tang construction.

First, I get the blade ready to accept the guard. I have it in the filing jig squaring the shoulders so the guard will fit almost seamlessly. A sharp file is a must.
   

Another view of the blade after it has been completely filed while still in the jig.  
   

Here is the balde completely filed and ready for a guard. Notice that I file all four sides.
   

Now for the guard material. I use 416 stainless when available. Here is a bar of 3/8 X 3/4 along side the blade which is now wrapped and protected from scratches while all this is going on.
   

I need a break. I will get back here this afternoon. Thanks, Lin
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Offline Lin Rhea

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Re: Guard on Hidden Tang (lots of pics)Finished knife photo added
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2009, 07:10:00 AM »
OK, I got some coffee and now for a few more pictures.

Is this boring or what?  :)  

 The guard is cut to roughly the size I want.

 

Here is piece is rounded a little and flattened. I'm holding the blade tang on the guard material and marking the top and bottom of the tang. The rough size of the material is a little over sized at this point, as you can see. I want to slot the material and shape the whole thing in relation to the slot. Make sense?
 

Here I'm just showing that I clarified my marks and am ready to drill and slot this thing.
 

I wont go into detail about how to rough in the slot. I use a small milling machine. You can drill and file the hole too. Either way, the hole is now roughed in and I'm making sure that the fit is not sloppy and that I have room to do some hand work with files to get a press fit. You can see that the guard will only go up to this close and gets tight. Thats good.
 

More to come. I have to get to work. Thanks, Lin
"We dont rent pigs." Augustus McCrae
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Dwyer Dauntless longbow 50 @ 28
Ben Pearson recurve 50 @ 28
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Offline d. ward

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Re: Guard on Hidden Tang (lots of pics)Finished knife photo added
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2009, 08:15:00 AM »
Thanks Lin thats great info..bd

Offline mastin03

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Re: Guard on Hidden Tang (lots of pics)Finished knife photo added
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2009, 08:31:00 AM »
great info here lin...thanks for taking the time to share
Passin' on advice from my old man, "Keep your feathers dry."

Offline Emmons

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Re: Guard on Hidden Tang (lots of pics)Finished knife photo added
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2009, 08:50:00 AM »
Excellent!!  Thank you for sharing.  Looking forward to seeing more.

James

Offline DANA HOLMAN

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Re: Guard on Hidden Tang (lots of pics)Finished knife photo added
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2009, 09:02:00 AM »
Lin thanks for the info. i've only done one hidden tang so this is good learning, keep it coming, can't wait to see the finshed product.
dana
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Offline Montauks

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Re: Guard on Hidden Tang (lots of pics)Finished knife photo added
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2009, 09:15:00 AM »
Great! I always wanted to see this done, thank you
What is life? It is the flash of a firefly in the night. It is the breath of a buffalo in the wintertime. It is the little shadow which runs across the grass and loses itself in the sunset.

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Offline DW

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Re: Guard on Hidden Tang (lots of pics)Finished knife photo added
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2009, 09:20:00 AM »
Thank You for posting this!!!.....Don and Skyler
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Offline prarieboy

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Re: Guard on Hidden Tang (lots of pics)Finished knife photo added
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2009, 09:32:00 AM »
Thanks Lin C-Ya Bob
Look up!It's ALL above us.

Offline beaver#1

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Re: Guard on Hidden Tang (lots of pics)Finished knife photo added
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2009, 09:44:00 AM »
just the thing i needed to see
have i not commanded you? be strong and of good courage;be not afraid or discouraged:for the Lord your God is with you where ever you go. joshua 1:9

Offline Doug Campbell

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Re: Guard on Hidden Tang (lots of pics)Finished knife photo added
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2009, 09:49:00 AM »
:thumbsup:    :thumbsup:
Life is wonderful in Montana!!
"BEING CHALLENGED IN LIFE IS INEVITABLE. BEING DEFEATED IS OPTIONAL."
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Offline imskippy

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Re: Guard on Hidden Tang (lots of pics)Finished knife photo added
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2009, 10:28:00 AM »
I love this place!! Keep up the good work Lin we appreciate you sharing you skills with us wanna be's. Skippy
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Offline Jack Guard

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Re: Guard on Hidden Tang (lots of pics)Finished knife photo added
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2009, 01:45:00 PM »
Way Cool Thread.  Love this kind of thread.  Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
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Offline Lin Rhea

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Re: Guard on Hidden Tang (lots of pics)Finished knife photo added
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2009, 05:20:00 PM »
OK I'm back from work. I'll do a little more now.

The next step is to start shaping the guard into something that looks familiar. I like to start the finger curve on the backside of the guard, but using the 2 inch wheel on my grinder. Any or all of this can be done by filing or by another means, by the way. I use my grinder because it's faster and I'm used to it. You'll see that my hands are very close to the belt and yes sometimes I get bit a little. Also the guard will get hot fast, so have a bucket of water handy.
 

At this point the finger curve has a good start and the guard is still kind of blocky looking.
 

So now I want to start profiling the guard so I wont have to do so much after the handle material is on the knife. Some handle material is more sensitive to heat and too much shaping of the guard while the handle material is on could damage it. Now, I'm just profiling it a little.
 
 

I take a little time now to get the profile close to final shape allowing some room for final finishing with the handle material on. When I am happy that I have done all I can before installing the handle material, I finish the front of the guard to my final grit or finish type. The sides are still pretty rough, maybe 60 or 120 grit. At this point it looks like a guard.
 

Anybody need a break? I do. I'll check back in a few. Lin
"We dont rent pigs." Augustus McCrae
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Offline Lin Rhea

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Re: Guard on Hidden Tang (lots of pics)Finished knife photo added
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2009, 06:37:00 PM »
OK here is where fitting a guard can get frustrating, but is really not that hard if you just set a standard. It needs to be tight, but not so tight that you damage the guard trying to press it on.

Here is the guard slid onto the tang and wont go any farther without some fine tuning.
 

I now will go to my guard clamp and try pressing it a little. Here is a picture of the clamp putting some pressure on it.
 

I'm just seeing what the guard will do, not applying too much pressure. This does something to the guard that tells me where to remove a little material. Notice the small dents in the rim of the slot, in this case, near the top and bottom. Look close.
 

I can take a small amount of material directly from these contact points and the guard will just keep moving on up. I follow this procedure until I have the guard on and there is no slack, but making full contact with the shoulders that I have filed in the blade's ricasso. I use 1/8 inch round files or some kind of needle files as I see the need.

I have to use magnifying glasses to see the contact points and work on these till I get it right. I mentioned standards. Dont settle for less than a good fit. The knife looks so much better when the blade come out of the guard like it grew there. This will be the focal point of the knife, the guard area.

OK, the fit is now good and we are ready to permanently install the guard. I like to use JB Weld to seal the guard/blade joint.

I need to make this clear. I dont rely on JB Weld to hold the guard secure. It's good stuff, for sure, but the press fit is what is the real strength of this joint. The JBW is like a third hand during the rest of the building process and ultimately will have the joint sealed from Water, blood, etc. The JBW will hold the proper fit that you've worked hard to get and allow you to concentrate on fitting the handle.

OK back to the guard.

The guard is ready to install. I clean the guard and the blade in the joint areas. I use acetone on a swab.
 

Then I mix enough JBW to seal the guard and apply it to the tang and shoulder areas.
 

The guard is on and clamped tight. The JBW should be squishing out all sides.
 

Then I clean off the excess of JBW with WD-40 on cotton swabs, taking time to get the whole area clean. The oil wont hurt the blade or guard so I use quite a bit just short of flooding it. If the fit is good, just let it sit overnight and your ready for your handle. The fit should look something like this.
 

I will try to get some pictures of the knife when I get finished in a couple of days. I hope this will help those of you who have never done this before and get an idea of the simple tools you need to do this job. Lin
"We dont rent pigs." Augustus McCrae
ABS Master Bladesmith
TGMM Family of the Bow
Dwyer Dauntless longbow 50 @ 28
Ben Pearson recurve 50 @ 28
Tall Tines Recurve 47@28
McCullough Griffin longbow 43@28

Offline d. ward

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Re: Guard on Hidden Tang (lots of pics)Finished knife photo added
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2009, 06:39:00 PM »
super nice work Lin thanks again..bd

Offline Nosight

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Re: Guard on Hidden Tang (lots of pics)Finished knife photo added
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2009, 07:22:00 PM »
This is a great tut Thanks Lin for taking the time to show us your way of doing this....

Is the jig you are using purchased or home grown???

Thanks again

Later.........Buzz
Remember...aim small miss small...

Offline SKYLER W

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Re: Guard on Hidden Tang (lots of pics)Finished knife photo added
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2009, 07:43:00 PM »
Lin, thank you for this. We can't wait to give your way a try. We really understand this process better now......What about the jigs????? Are both of them home-made?????? SKYLER
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Offline Lin Rhea

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Re: Guard on Hidden Tang (lots of pics)Finished knife photo added
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2009, 08:16:00 PM »
Thanks guys. Yes they are both home made. Lin
"We dont rent pigs." Augustus McCrae
ABS Master Bladesmith
TGMM Family of the Bow
Dwyer Dauntless longbow 50 @ 28
Ben Pearson recurve 50 @ 28
Tall Tines Recurve 47@28
McCullough Griffin longbow 43@28

Offline Ian johnson

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Re: Guard on Hidden Tang (lots of pics)Finished knife photo added
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2009, 08:20:00 PM »
gonna try and finish a guard this weekend, thanks for the build a long Lin, hey whats the best way to cut a hole in a handle for a half hidden tang?
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