400 gr head/wood arrow

Shadowhnter · July 10, 2016, 12:04:00 PM

Looking for someone that are using or have tried to use 400+gr end weight on wood arrows. Im looking to jump from 690gr arrow to 800-850gr arrow, and it will require the use of around a 400gr head to accomplish all that I want to. Im a bit apprehensive, being a bit leery that the shafts may snap on impact right behind the head too often. With the 690gr, im front loaded to almost 300 gr now, and have no structural problems. I am shooting Douglas Fir presently and I dont want to splice or foot the arrows. I plan to hunt deer with these heavier shafts. Im not looking for speculation, thoughts, or opinions on the matter, but rather experience. Is this a reasonable feat, or am I dreaming?

Fletcher · July 10, 2016, 01:07:00 PM

As you have probably noticed, the extra weight up front ups your spine requirement, making regular mass weight arrows a challenge. 850 grains may be doable. I've built a few sets of arrows for 300 gr points and find that spine increase needs diminish quite a bit after 200 gr points. Going from 200 to 300 only required another 5-6 lbs spine. I suspect going from 300 to 400 gr will be about the same. Where are you spine wise with 300 gr points? Fir can be had in some pretty heavy spines, but the weight is usually pretty high along with it.

Shadowhnter · July 10, 2016, 01:52:00 PM

Im using 55/60 at 28" BOP with the 300gr, and getting great bare shaft flight as well as fletched. Ive got some 65/70's I was going to try, but more then anything im worried about the arrow integrity, and fear they will snap right behind the head with added extra head weight? My 55/60 firs are roughly (+/-) 12gr per inch.

59Alaskan · July 10, 2016, 02:46:00 PM

I am just curious and excited about what you're going to hunt? I went up to about that weight for gator, but I used carbon

SELFBOW19953 · July 10, 2016, 03:06:00 PM

Do what Monte Browning did/does, use solid fiberglass fish arrows.

M60gunner · July 10, 2016, 04:09:00 PM

I tried upping the weight on wood arrows to get them close in weight. I used that jig for drilling out the front of shaft and I used lead solder for weight. It does require some putzing as woods vary in weight. Only issue I see is the depth of hole in shaft for the weight you want. It could change the spine to much. Then you got a tuning nightmare.
I think 3 Rivers sells the jig and long drill bit? Arrows still break behind point if you hit a rock.

Danny Rowan · July 10, 2016, 04:21:00 PM

Good luck, I know of no 400 gr heads for glue on or screw in. Could get it with a 100 gr steel broadhead adaptor guled in to a Tuffhead.

Tree Killer · July 10, 2016, 04:46:00 PM

call Jonathan at Kootenai River Arrow Woods and talk to him about his Western Larch shafts. He has some heavy shafts, I just got two dozen from him in the 580 grain class for a guy I make arrows for. Granted they're 80-85 spine, but he might be able to hook you up with what you need.

PM me if you can't find his phone number.

Shadowhnter · July 10, 2016, 05:46:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Danny Rowan:
Good luck, I know of no 400 gr heads for glue on or screw in. Could get it with a 100 gr steel broadhead adaptor guled in to a Tuffhead. [/QUOTE

....or I could glue on a 300gr tuffhead to a 100gr woody weight, and that on my shaft taper.

Shadowhnter · July 10, 2016, 05:50:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by M60gunner:
Arrows still break behind point if you hit a rock.

What about when encountering bone?

WESTBROOK · July 10, 2016, 06:38:00 PM

I'm interested to hear how a 800g arrow fly's out of what sounds like a 45# bow

Shadowhnter · July 10, 2016, 07:31:00 PM

Im very much not worried about the trajectory. Ive shot as high as 735 gr with little to no distinguishing the couple I had in the quiver, with others that were as light as 630.....all spined the same, and flying true. Just different weights per inch of shaft. They grouped right with the others.

im more worried about the arrows integrity. Mainly right behind the head. Can I reasonably expect the arrow to remain intact, if I hit the opposite leg bone or shoulder blade, with a 400gr end weight head, on a wood shaft?

Hasnt anybody tried 400+ gr heads on unaltered woodies? Thats what im asking! Gotta be someone out there who has?....
Guess im gonna have to depend upon my own experimenting again...lol :confused:

Fletcher · July 10, 2016, 09:30:00 PM

I've not had any issues with heavy points leading to shaft breakage, but I have heard it from others. Nothing in my physics leads me to believe that a heavier point could increase shaft breakage. IMO, the heavy point should help keep the arrow straight which would reduce breakage. Any arrow can break if it hits the far leg hard enuf and the higher weight and FOC might make that more likely to happen. I made a set of Sitka spruce arrows with 300 gr Tuffheads for a friend. He shot an elk with one and the shaft broke about 3" behind the point. He felt is was an integrity problem but I feel it more likely that it broke when the elk ran. Whichever, he tagged the elk.

Make up a few with the 100 gr Woody Weight and see how they do. The WW will have a smaller ferrule dia than the Tuffhead, so sand down the shaft a bit behind the taper so that the end of the taper is inside the ferrule. That will eliminate the stress riser and make a much stronger connection.

Shadowhnter · July 10, 2016, 10:03:00 PM

Excellent answer! Thank you so much Rick! That helps a lot, and now im more confident to spend money and proceed.

Benny Nganabbarru · July 10, 2016, 10:23:00 PM

I shoot nearly 400 grains on top of my wooden arrows out of my 75# Hill. The shafts are 125#+ spine. About 1100 grains total. My mate Alex has a similar set-up and killed a buffalo.

longstiks · July 11, 2016, 04:05:00 AM

I've used the internal footing mentioned earlier and added 3" of welding rod and haven't had any break behind the head on hard impacts. That will add about 70gr to the front.
Denny

A Lex · July 12, 2016, 05:32:00 PM

Like Benny said above, 400 odd grains of point up front (Woody weight plus point/broadhead), on hardwood shafts of #125+ spine, out of my 75lb Blackwidow longbow, no problems at all with breakages.

Make sure to get it all tuned right though.

Only time I've broken them off behind the point is when I've hit a rock.

Have taken buffalo and pigs with them. The shaft did break on occasions, not at the point joint, but elsewhere along the shaft. Animals falling on the shafts will bust them every time.

Try some.

Best
Lex

Longtoke · July 12, 2016, 09:06:00 PM

What about footing the shafts like they do for carbons? will that just move the breaking point behind the footing or will it make a stronger wood arrow? I dont shoot 400gs up front but most my woodies break right behind or about an inch behind the point.

ChuckC · July 12, 2016, 09:46:00 PM

Seems to me that a shaft breaking, especially a wood shaft, occurs more from hitting something hard obliquely and that happens with any grain arrow, especially a faster one. The head gets torqued and the shaft keeps going straight and "snap". I really don't think it will be any worse with this weight forward arrow than with any other, maybe even less due to the drop in speed.

Proof is in the pudding though, try it and report back !
ChuckC

Don Stokes · July 14, 2016, 07:23:00 PM

I'm shooting a recurve at 63# this year, and it requires 90-95# spine. I do all my practice with judo points, and my heaviest arrows are around 700 grains. In past years I shot closer to 600 grains. I've noticed that the stronger bow and heavier arrows are a little more likely to break off a point on a glancing shot off a tree or rock, but not enough difference to be significant. Years back I was experimenting with compressed wood shafts I made myself in the university's wood lab, and they made 850-900 grain arrows with 160 grain heads. I never got them to shoot to my satisfaction, so maybe the heavier points will stabilize yours better.