HH bug got me ... Part One!

[MikeNova]

Mudd are you thinking about starting a support group for all of us waiting for a Sunset Hill LOL!

[dragonheart]

Hi my name is ...

[Rik]

. . . and I'm a Hillbowaholic. . .

[NomadArcher]

Hello, My name is Ken. I am a Hillbowaholic !!!

 

[Mudd]

I thought by making that same admission some time back that I was on my way to recovery but it just ain't so.

Please don't look to me for any leadership in turning away from these bows...lol

My name is Mudd and I am a hopeless Hillbowaholic.

Merry Christmas and God bless, Mudd

[ChrisM]

Rehab is for quiters!!!

[Austin Brown]

Have to admit you guys sparked my interest in this style of bow.  Here's a couple I've picked up recently.  Haven't read every page of the thread but haven't heard much about these two bowyers in this thread.  Tom Parsons Mattawoman and Fred Anderson Skookum, not sure what you guys think about them but I love them.

[ChrisM]

I like the parson bows and his is also a great guy.  Shared a camp with him once.

[Red Tailed Hawk]

Cliff here, and yes a Hillbowaholic!!!!

And dam proud of it!!!!

[swampthing]

Nothing like banging a 45yd stump, unless of course you can do it at will!

[swampthing]

[khardrunner]

Both of those are beautiful! I particularly like the one on the left. Something about dark bows...

[tradlongbow]

Austin-

I had a Fred Anderson HHC, that was his Hill style bow. It was an excellent shooter and a master piece. I really like how Fred makes his limb tips, it's kinda like his trademark. Take a pic of your limb tips and show the other guys, it's really cool how Fred makes them.

Darren

[Molson]

Originally posted by khardrunner:
Both of those are beautiful! I particularly like the one on the left. Something about dark bows...

Me too! That is sweet.  Is that the Parson?

[David Mitchell]

Tom Parsons' KimSha bows are extremely fine shooters.  he really knows his craft--that's the bow on the left in Austin Brown's picture.  The Fred Anderson bows are top examples of the bowyer's art.  Glad you mentioned Tom Parsons, Austin, his bows are first rate.

[Austin Brown]

Yes the bow on the left is the Tom Parsons Kim Sha "Mattawoman" and in my opinion is a Hill style bow.  

I saw another Fred Anderson Skookum in this thread, but the Skookum probably doesn't qualify as a Hill style bow.  The riser is a little longer and limbs have a faint hint of curl, but I was so excited about it that I put it in there with the Mattawoman.  While I would be the first to admit that I haven't seen as many bows as alot of you guys, I personally have never seen better craftsmanship than these two bows.

Here's the requested pics of Fred's Skookum tips:

 
 
 

[deathwind]

I hesitate to write this and I know few will have an open enough mind to try an understand what I'm going to say about Howard Hill's shooting style. I have studied many of Howard's movie's just like a lot of you have. I've done them one frame at a time and it's amazing what you will see if you just keep an open mind. The pictures of Howard shooting a couple pages back will help demonstrate what I'm talking about. It's pretty well known that Howard was left eye dominant but shot right handed. Howard shot with both of his eyes pretty much square to the target, which gives you the best depth perception. At Howard's anchor,the string was slightly behind the eye and the arrow was to the right of his right eye. I don't feel that he was looking down the arrow or he would have been lining the arrow directly underneath his pupil(similar to what Byron Ferguson does).I know that when I am shooting left handed,which is cross eye dominant for me, that I imagine my index finger of my bow hand pointing at the target. I pull the string back to my back tooth to anchor and also to the side similar to Howards. I don't gap shoot off the arrow point but merely imagine my index finger pointing at what I'm wanting to hit. Similar in giving someone directions. You simply point with your dominant hand at what your talking about when you're giving directions. In a couple of the movies on Howard that I've watched,his right eye is squinted so much that it is all but shut. By aiming in this way, the arrow length means nothing because you are never looking at it. If you glance at your arrow point when shooting cross eye dominant, your arrow will go off to the side by feet at close range. One of the stories on Howard that I believe is in Craig's book,said that Howard grabbed a bunch of arrows at an archery tournament of all different lengths and spines and was able to shoot all of them at a 12" square box at 30 yards and hit it with all of them. Some he couldn't pull all the way back even. If he was merely gap shooting,the gap would change a bunch on each arrow and would be all but impossible to have him hit with each arrow like he did. However,if he was using his bow or bow hand to aim with,the sight picture would never change. I feel that by him using his bow hand on the swing draw to aim with while drawing going up to the target, that once he was pointing at the object to hit,all he had to do was continue his draw until he reached anchor and let loose. His aiming was done and finished by the time he was at the apex of his draw. It's getting late and I'm a slow typer so I'll let this go as is.I have several other reasons that I feel that he shot this way and maybe I'll write them down too some time. Hopefully, I wrote this where it can be understood what I'm talking about.

[Mudd]

Deathwind what you've written makes perfect sense to me.

Thanks for your insight and thoughts.

God bless, Mudd

[mikebiz]

It's very interesting that you mention this deathwind.  When I saw those photos of Howard earlier I thought to myself, "Hey that's how you shoot."  Like Howard I'm a right hand shooter, but I'm left eye dominant.  I do not sight down the arrow shaft or use the arrow point in any way to aim.  I use a slightly open stance and my eyes are almost square to the target.  The string does not line up directly in front of my right eye.  When I reach anchor at the corner of the mouth the string is actually in line with right side of my eyeball, not down the center of the pupil.  I aim purely by utilizing the swing draw as demonstrated by John Schulz in "Hitting 'Em Like Howard Hill".  As my bow hand reaches the point where it is pointing at the target, I continue to draw back in a straight line to anchor and release.  I really don't see the arrow until it leaves the string.  I've utilized this technique since I first started shooting when I was around 10 years old.  It was not taught to me, it's just how my brain compensated for my cross dominant eye.  It's always been very comfortable and automatic for me.  Even after not shooting for about four years I snapped right back into this form like I had never had a break from archery.

In Chapter 13 of "Howard Hill The Man and The Lengend" Craig Ekin says that Howard used split vision or secondary aiming as his sighting method.  Basically it's described as substituting the tip of the arrow for your bow hand index finger pointing at the target.  I find this a bit odd as Howard constantly stressed that the shooter should concentrate completely on "the spot" he/she wishes to hit with the arrow.  I'm not sure if he actually ever saw the tip of the arrow or only the spot.  

In my opinion I feel that Howard relied extensively on muscle memory to duplicate shot after shot.  After so much practice it would become second nature to gauge distance and "point" the bowhand accordingly.  

And I believe that somewhere in Ekin's book Howard is cited as likening shooting a longbow to hitting a nail with a hammer.  When was the last time any of us swung the hammer directly in front of our face in order to hit the nail?  The hammer goes up towards the shoulder and down onto the head of the nail.  The eyes and brain will compensate for this off center swing by triangulation.  

I'd like to hear other's opinions on this matter.  Now it's really late and I need to get some sleep or I won't be worth a darn at work tomorrow.  Great post Bill.  Really got me to thinking about how I shoot the longbow.

[30coupe]

If I understand Howard correctly, his split vision aiming was used on targets over 40 yards. It was, as he explained it, focusing on the target, but also seeing a secondary aiming point out there and trying to hit it. The arc of the arrow would drop it down to the intended target.

To practice this he mounted a basketball to a board then put several smaller balls around it. While staring at the basketball, he would shoot the smaller ones.

I tried this, and unbelievably, it works. I didn't use balls, but spots on my yellowjacket target. I concentrated on a spot, but shot at a different one and hit it from about 10 yards. If you do this, you guys are correct, you can't really see your arrow.

I have also found that this works best using Howard's low wrist grip on the bow. This seems to put your index finger in line with your eye, like pointing your finger at an object. With a high wrist hold on the bow, my finger is pointing more toward the ground in front of the target. Try this without a bow and you will see what I mean.

I don't know that this method really developed due to his cross dominant eye. I am right eye dominant and right handed, and this method works well for me too.