HH bug got me ... Part One!

[San Paolo]

Good morning,
I'd like to know what are the right ratio between width,height and depth for an original peaked handle as old hill had; my current hill have a rounded handle but some years ago I try a peaked one and it was fine.
Marco.

[dragonheart]

The grips, like our hands are all different sizes.   The fit is the key to shooting any bow well.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by dragonheart:
...   The fit (grip) is the key to shooting any bow well.

i don't think so.  i've hated the feel of the hill "tear drop" grip, but i shot a few of those quite well.  

imo, what makes for a "good" longbow (or any stick bow, for that matter) is consistency.  without that, the best handle shape, or limb woods, or riser geometry or whatever is for naught.  for each of us, some bows just work "better" than other bows.  add to the equation that each bow with have a compromise of stability and speed.  so there are lotsa ingredients that make up a longbow recipe that works best for each of us.  and to our chagrin, it's really the arrow that's more important.    

[Ron LaClair]

there are lotsa ingredients that make up a longbow recipe that works best for each of us. and to our chagrin, it's really the arrow that's more important.        

Absolutely...many times when there's an arrow flight problem the arrow itself is one of the last things to be blamed.

[dragonheart]

Bow grips come in many sizes.  There are many ingredients in the recipe as you put it for shooting longbows well.  I think of the grip as the most important element in the Hill Style longbow.  What wood is in the limbs, the length to draw ratio, etc. are all factors, and they have there priority, but the grip must fit to shoot really well.    

I am not talking about some new design or handle shape.  The grip needs to fit you the individual archer in size and shape.  Why did Hill shoot a grip as big (back to belly) that he did?  In the shape he did?  It fit his style and his handsize.  I am sure he could shoot any bow better than us, but what was his preference?  What style of grip?  I am sure he wanted the most accurate bow, considering he made his living shooting.    

If you heel the bow and shoot this style, a bow with a teardrop shape handle works very well.  If gives you a positive/consistent placement on the bow that is forgiving.  If you shoot the Hill style properly.  If you wrap your hand all the round the side of the bow, or shoot with a high wrist you get all kinds of problems.  The grip is the key to the whole thing.  If you get it right and shoot this form it is the consistency you are looking for.

I thought that I was really shooting the form that I was taught as a young man, Hill style.  As I watched this thread and reviewed my John Schulz DVD on form along with the help of the videos on this thread, I have realized how much of a tune up I have really needed.  I have strayed away from the basics and my shooting accuracy and most of all confidence has suffered.    

One of the important benefits of shooting a specific style/form, it gives you the foundation.  You can wander all over trying everything, or you can have a foundation of one style/technique.  This leads to confidence and trained reaction when we get in those pressure situations.  It gives you a place to fall back to review when you have shooting problems.  

This is how they teach martial arts, a form or style, a foundation, archery is no different.  In fact it is a form of martial arts.  Without the basic fundamentals, to fall back on, you get really lost trying too much stuff.  

You can put just about any bow in a talented archers hands and they can shoot it well.  They will shoot their best with a bow with a grip that fits their hand right.  

I believe that the fit of the grip is the most important factor for a significant improvement of our shooting accuracy.  This given that the bow has arrows tuned to the bow and there is not some issues with the bow.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by dragonheart:
.... I believe that the fit of the grip is the most important factor for a significant improvement of our shooting accuracy. ...

if that's what it takes to make you consistently accurate, go for it!     :D

[Okie man]

This a great thread. Several remarks by different people have reminded me of some subtle nuances of proper form with the straight grip Hill style bow that I had forgotten. Pics of great scenery and stories of adventure with the HH bow help pass the time while I wait out 105+ degree heat down here in OK.

[2treks]

Howdy!, I just got back from the PBS Gathering in WI, I passed on a Jack Howrd bow(painful), I passed on a Bill Stewart bow(stingy), I brought the late 70's HOWARD HILL home!!!!!!
NOW! How good are you Hill boys!
BM68588
61#@28"

[MT Longbow]

Originally posted by Two Tracks:
Howdy!, I just got back from the PBS Gathering in WI, I passed on a Jack Howrd bow(painful), I passed on a Bill Stewart bow(stingy), I brought the late 70's HOWARD HILL home!!!!!!
NOW! How good are you Hill boys!
BM68588
61#@28"

PICS Please!!!

[Ron LaClair]

Chuck, if it's a late 70's it was probably made by Ted Kramer or Tim Meigs. Tembo or Big 5?

[dragonheart]

This thread appears to have a magical, influence on people!  LOL!  Ol school works and is timeless.  

Of course, you know we are wanting to see photos of the new Hill longbow.  

[Brad_Gentry]

With that serial number, I'm betting it's a Big Five made by Tim Miegs. I think I remember reading the first letter was the model ("B" = Big Five), and the second letter was the bowyer...

[Rik]

OKIE MAN,

This one's for you. Photos of Idaho snow country to help you cool off, at least mentally. (P.S. Send some of that 105 degree weather our way, we need it to melt the snow that is keeping us out of elk country!)

My wife and I went to scout out some new country this weekend. As many of you know, we had quite a winter in Idaho this year. Well, suffice it to say, the area we tried to get to still has WAY too much snow to get there.  

This photo shows where we had to hike to. See that snowy peak just to the right of my hat? Well, there is ten times that much snow on the other side, because the other side is facing north. It never sees the sun.



We were fairly inspired to see the lack of snow on this south facing side, so on went the packs and off we went. We hiked over the top just to the right of the snow you see on that peak, and that was it. There is eight to ten feet of snow on the other side, and it stopped us cold.

It was far too dangerous to go any further because there are many blowdowns sticking up out of the snow, and one slip would mean broken legs for sure as you slid into a blowdown. So, I could not get into the new elk country I was looking for.  I did get a chance to look down into it, and it looked even better than I had thought. Yes, there will be elk there. I just have to wait three weeks or so for the snow to melt, and I'll be back. This elk scouting gets a bit strenuous at times, but it pays off if you find the right spot. My mission this year is to find a place without wolves. In Idaho, that's about like finding a shoe sale with no women. Still, it CAN be done, and I am doing my best.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot to mention. We did find a fair amount of fresh elk sign on the southern side of the hill. Here's a photo to show you how fresh. In September, this bull, and the others who were leaving the tracks, will be down in the cool, damp, deep dark north facing stuff I could not get to this weekend.



My imagination tends to run amuck this close to elk season, still. . . I am just about positive there are hundreds and hundreds of these running around. Well, maybe not hundreds, but dozens and dozens. Yeah that's it, Dozens and Dozens. . .

[Rik]

P.S. Your guess:  Photoshop. . . or Chuck Adams' camera?

[RC]

Mighty fine Rik. I sit outside on my deck at near dark and drip sweat. I can`t imagine snow on the ground anywhere.RC

[Okie man]

I was in Idaho last September to move my mother in-law back to OK.  She lived south of Salmon in a small settlement called Lemhi.  I was only there a few days to load her up and head back but, I was struck by the beauty of the place with few people and vast expanses of forest and rugged landscape.  I appreciate your pics Rik and would surely send you some of this heat to melt the snow if I could.

[Rik]

Okie Man------ much appreciated. Send that hot weather north-west, ASAP!

This photograph does it little measure, but let your mind slow a bit. . . take a deep breath. . . imagine sititin' with binoculars in your hand and your back to a huge snowbank in July. Feel the cool mountain air. . .

I took this photo yesterday, near the middle of July. This is the side of the typically granite-covered Idaho mountain that faces south. It has had 100% sunshine since, well, sabertooth tigers roamed Idaho (and they did---in droves).



The country you have seen near Salmon is even better than this, but since it's a five-hour drive from here, the salmon country safe from me. I have a feeling you may someday stalk that country yourself, bow in hand. . . it might not be so safe then.

Ahh, but today we're interested in the other side of the mountain shown above, the side where the tasty elk reside.

Seems it has not seen actual, direct, sunshine since the last time the polar ice caps switched sides. That means it is cool, and dark, and steep, and deep. You can't get there from here.

You can't get there from the north either. At least, not without an armada's worth of gear and horses.

You can't get there from the south, at least until the middle of August.

But the best part is, you probably can't find a better place for me to spend three weeks in September, because you really can't get there from anyplace without a whole lot of work. Sounds like interesting country to me.

Never been there, but I suspect there's elk there.

Take that with a grain of salt, we Idaho boys tend to be a bit, well, touched in the head. Especially when it comes to elk country.

Especially hard-to-get-to WILD elk country.

[Ray_G]

Rik,

Are you packing llamas in this year?

Did you see any wolf sign or hear any?

Good hunting!

Ray

[Rik]

Ray,

That's the beauty of it---the wolf pack named for this drainage moved east, and took over the range of another wolf pack. I suspect the battle left serious carnage and blood trails on both sides.


One pack won the battle. That same pack also leaves no sign where I am hunting. Nary a track under the old snow. Nary a dropping from at least two years ago. Might be a one-year window of opportunity.

The winning wolf pack is gone, they have new country to the east. That leaves their country to me, and my wife, and our longbows.

Still, I need to get in there to see the rubs from last year. Won't be able to get in for three weeks, so that lets me scout two other new areas in the next two weeks. I will see the Tetons from one area. The other is still working it's way into my conscience, but it's out there. Somewhere.

This is starting to get exciting. . .

[RC]

Good Luck after the Elk Rik. I enjoy your pics.

   I must say I have picked up quite a bit from this Hill Bow thread and I don`t consider myself a beginner. Cool ain`t it.A Brotherhood inside a Brotherhood kinda.
 1. Started adding a bit of little finger pressure on the bow hand per Rik and groups got a bit tighter.
2. Realized after reading a bit about brace heights that I was much to high with my big Five. Twisted down a bit and the bow seemed to "relax" a bit at the shot.
3.Decided to try the slight locator per Rob . I sent the straight handled Big Five to Mr. Craig at HH and he turned it in to one of the best feeling and consistant grips I`ve shot. I have to admit the Vince of Mohawk bows is the expert on grips for my liking.
4. Got a cordaven tab from Brother Mud and finally know what a slick release is...
5.Due to an ailing leg I have to really cut down on stuff to carry to the deer woods. I hunt a good bit for these Southern Whitetails from stands. I move a lot hunting primary feed trees so it is often that I will be packing a stand on my back. I`m gonna try to film some of my hunts this year and carrying a bit more gear I decided to try to not have to carry a quiver over the shoulder. so I played with a bow quiver on my Big Five. Works for Rik and thats where I got the idea.I have a couple of old selways so I slid one on and my acurracy improved even more from the added weight.Bow seemed a bit quieter as well.

 Have not posted alot on here but check this thread everytime I log on. Good stuff.RC