Is there a point of diminishing return?

[Greg Skinner]

The TBM article mentioned above indicated that somewhere in the 11 to 11.5 grains was the point of diminishing returns at the upper end.  That seems to be about where I wind up with most of my setups. I also agree with Rob about the trajectory.  For me I'm good out to 30 or so yards, which is as far as I normally shoot at anything.

[Stumpkiller]

My question is if there's an area of diminishing returns with arrow weight on a light bow, such as if you get over 14-15 GPP then the momentum you're gaining from weight is outweighed by the speed your loosing.

Trajectory like a lawn hose if you do go out roving, stumpshooting or bunny hunting and need to snake the arrow through a small window in cover.

[J-dog]

There has to be, with anything. I remember a great thread on here about this very subject not too terribly long ago.

16.5 gpi?? My question is WHY do you need more. Seems like you have a sooped up enough arrow as is, definantly to handle deer and hogs?? I usually find mine around 10/11 gpi, and thought that was the perfect balance. I could go up in spine on my arrows and go heavier but with the arrows I have now this IS the point where they will give if I shoot my regulat heads up front (260 grizzs or 225 WWs).

Seriously would like to hear what you find out if you push it further! Fun to experiment I guess.

J

[Bonebuster]

Draw LENGTH plays a bit of a role in this equation as well. An arrow that is too heavy for the bow will show the effects more with shorter draw lengths.

The common formula of 9 to 12 grains per pound is a "common" formula for a reason.

[HATCHCHASER]

There is an article in TBM about this subject.  I can't remember which one.  If I remember correctly the most efficient arrow, energy wise, was 9 to 12 gpp.  Anything over 12 gpp and the energy started dropping.  I like 10 or 11 gpp.

[Friend]

Out of a 51# @ 28 bow, my observations only and not scientically substantiated.               
                                           
Comparing a tuned 564 gn(11.1 gpp) - 25% EFOC arrow to a 608 gn(11.92) 32% Ultra- EFOC arrow.       
                                           
1. Same site picture used to hit right on at 20 yards                           
                                           
2. Just able to discern the heavier arrow to be slightly less noise.                        
                                           
3. Just able to discern the heavier arrow to be slightly less shock.                    
                                           
4. Ultra-EFOC bareshafts and shoots large dia. BH's better than any of my numerous previous set-ups.       
                                           
5. The heavier Ultra-EFOC wants to shoot thru a moderately used average bag target, where the the 25% EFOC set-up never does.
                                           
6. Penetration on a Rhinehart BH target with the Heavier Ultra-EFOC,tipped with a Big 3               
is significantly deeper than the 25% EFOC arrow and much more deep than                 
any of my 2 blade set-ups with 55# and 14 -16% FOC                           
                                           
                                           
If trajectory was an issue, then I would shoot lighter yet maintain EFOC or Ultra-EFOC.               
   (Note: EFOC and possibly Ultra-EFOC is easily obtained w/Victory HV shafts)               
                                           
       Victory HV 400   6.2   gpi                       
       Victory HV 350   6.7   gpi                       
       Victory HV 300   6.9   gpi                       
                                           
                                           
Traditonal archery is quite indivually dependent.                           
1. We have different expectations                               
2. Form, fit and funtion can be quite different for individuals.                       
3. What works perect for one is absolutely wrong for another                       
4. What we read or develop on paper may not remotley resemble observations in reality.               
5. Believing in yourself and your set-up is paramount                           
                                           
I also believe a train travelling 7.3 fps( 5mph) hits you equals doom.                   
                                           
The point of diminshing returns most likley will be governed by the trajectory                   
one can shoot consistantly out to their desired range.                           
                                           
                                           
Just the opinions and observations from an non-expert.

[shortstroke 91]

Friend, I have to ask how you got a 32% Ultra-EFOC and only 608 grains.
What was the set up? Sounds like a good one.

[Ragnarok Forge]

There is definately a point of diminshing returns.  The question is how are you measuring that?  Penetration?  Speed?  Arrow drop off?  You have to know what you want to find it.  Then you have to play around and work with your bow and arrows to find what meets your desired result.

[Friend]

"Friend, I have to ask how you got a 32% Ultra-EFOC and only 608 grains."

shortstroke 91, per your request.

28.5" Victory HV 350 shafts at 6.7 gpi
100 grain insert
300 field pt or Big 3 BH
Three 4" shield cut; postioned 2.1" from nock throat. Positioning the fletching fwd for my nose anchor actually increases FOC. This set-up is ~32.4% at 608 grains.

Would have gone to the Victory HV300's at 6.9 gpi if I would have needed to go any shorter. Also, could have considered building out 1/8" past center shelf. I would believe that even greater FOC could be achieved with shelves cut closer to center and using the HV400 @ 6.2 gpi.

Hope my response is satisfactory.

[shortstroke 91]

Thanks, thats 400 grains out front for 66% of the total arrow weight. I bet it'll drop pretty quickly but it's gotta hit like a brick too.

[Zradix]

Most bows...MOST...seems to hit a sweet spot right around 11.5grn/lb.
I have gathered this from other peoples postings and my own testing.

By sweet spot I mean the bow giving the arrow the most energy.