Heavy broadhead question

[SweatyTeddy]

Hey everyone!
Are any of you folks running a heavier broadhead (190-200gr.) on a standard insert? I'm new to building arrows and I see everyone running collars or heavy brass inserts. Is it uncommon to shoot a 190 grain head with a regular insert? Have I been just been duped by big FOC?
Edit: currently shooting carbons and aluminums

[Mike Bolin]

I let tuning/arrow flight dictate my point/broadhead weight. When I first started dropping in bow weight I had a bunch of 400 spine shafts. I played around with the point weight until they flew well. A few years later I dropped in bow weight again and changed over to a 500 spine, again playing with the point weight until I got good flight. I've never concerned myself much with FOC, more interested in total arrow weight and the best arrow flight I can get. It does seem that I usually end up with a fairly high FOC and an arrow that finishes out at 11.5-12.5 grains per pound of bow weight. It varies as to whether I achieve the necessary weight with heavier point, weighted inserts or adapters. I've used about everything that's available and it all worked. If I were hunting game bigger that a whitetail, I "might" shy away from the aluminum broadhead adapters.>>>----->

[Mint]

I shoot heritage 150's with 200gr broadhead with standard insert or 160 gr broadhead with 50 gr brass insert and they both fly the same and have had no issues with either set up.

[EHK]

As other have said, there's nothing wrong with heavier heads and stock inserts.  I think some guys (I'm one of them) prefer the idea of a smaller broadhead up front so there's less to "steer" the arrow or less for the fletching to have to overcome.  I'll take a 50 grain insert and 150 grain Magnus Stinger over a bigger 200 grain head every day.  I also only hunt whitetails and use light bows in the low 40s for what it's worth. 

[Orion]

I shoot about 250 grains up front on my carbon arrows, mostly with a 100 grain insert and 150 grain point/adaptor. Would have no compunction with shooting a heavier head and lighter insert. An aluminum insert isn't as strong as a heavier steel insert, but plenty strong for deer size critters. 

[SweatyTeddy]

As other have said, there's nothing wrong with heavier heads and stock inserts.  I think some guys (I'm one of them) prefer the idea of a smaller broadhead up front so there's less to "steer" the arrow or less for the fletching to have to overcome.  I'll take a 50 grain insert and 150 grain Magnus Stinger over a bigger 200 grain head every day.  I also only hunt whitetails and use light bows in the low 40s for what it's worth.

This makes a lot of sense! Thanks

[MnFn]

"I see everyone running heavy collars or brass inserts".

Not everyone.

Either heavy inserts with lighter broadheads or lighter broadheads with heavy inserts will probably work ok for you.

With CE150's I shot 160 STOS two blades with a 50 grain insert. It was ok.

This year I have changed things up. Sort of started over. From draw length to arrow spine to broadheads.
I have not killed anything with it (yet) so I am not going to get more specific. I'll let you know once I have some actual experience in the field with it.

[BUCKY]

I use a 150 head and a 150 insert.

[Wudstix]

I shoot 170-200 grain heads on tapered, footed wood shafts.  Like mentioned above, let the tuning tell you what weight works.

[Ol’ Sloughfoot]

You haven't been duped. Enough FOC is important. My arrow set ups typically end up in the low 20%. Total arrow weight 650-700 Spend the time to bare shaft tune... it's worth it.

[LookMomNoSights]

Don't judge the book by it's cover.  You'll see folks with the latest and greatest most expensive double nasa carbon super duper curves quivered up with shafts that are $200 a dozen and sport unobtainium inserts with 24k gold collars cuz gold is harmonically the most stable kind of B.S.,  and they are fresh out the gate never killed an animal and can't hit a trash can lid from 15 yards away.   And, you will see folks with an old bow they scored at a yard sale,  shooting an array of different looking arrows with a rainbow of fletch colors,  but they know what they are doing and the tackle is tuned ...... and they can drill a quarter consistently at 20+ yards and fill their freezers year after year.   There's lots of stuff you don't need,  arrow stuff being no exception.  If it works for you, it works.  If you like to tinker,  awesome .... this is always fun and a learning experience.   Just don't read into any of it too much,  it has a tendency to kill the fun out of it and will hit you hard in the wallet if you chase it far enough.   
I shoot a 500 spine nothing crazy shaft (Easton Carbon Legacy) with a 50 grain brass insert/190 gr broadhead OR a 75 grain brass insert/175 gr broadhead.   No collars or aluminum sleeves.  Pick an animal on this continent .... my arrows would work just fine.  A heavy head and the factory supplied inserts - no problem at all,  ESPECIALLY when the arrow is the correct spine and the tuning is on point and you get flight as good as it can get.  Your arrow will fly true,  do it's job and hold up just fine.  Hit them where you are supposed to. 

[Terry Green]

I've shot Zwickey Delta 4 blades since the 80s, out of heavy bows and never had one 'steer'.

[Tajue17]

no collars but Ive been known to drop a few #8 lead pellets inside the broadhead to tweak the grains up a bit,, only when using 75gr steel adaptors that have a shorter point or with woods just break off the tip of the taper then just put a extra dap of hot melt on tip of insert or tapered shaft and that melts into the pellets.

oh sometimes screw broadhead or fieldpoint thru a 1/8 center hole fender washers to up the weight and make a nice small game head.

[Stringwacker]

There is always a lot of friendly debate on any subject that remotely dances around the issue of extreme FOC. My own experiences indicate it is helpful if your arrow tunes out (bareshafting or whatever alternative method you prefer)) to this configuration; but keep in mind that its application is most desirable for larger game such as you would encounter in moose or elk...or african game. In almost 50 years of hunting, I've used setups that employed both extremes of the issue.

The likely hundred of thousands of animals killed before EFOC became the rage is evidence that just moderately weighted arrows with lighter broadheads work just fine for deer sized game. In the end, a perfectly tuned bow setup will max out your hunting effectiveness regardless of the broadhead weight you are using ('running' if you prefer)

[Ol’ Sloughfoot]

Would 200-300 grains up front be considered extreme FOC for a trad bow?
Seems I first heard this term from compound shooters... usually describing arrow set ups trad guys have been using for years. I have a friend who shoots a compound...he's a very good hunter. He used to shoot fast stuff~400-420 grains... over the years his game recovery rate was not impressive. I was tired of going on these wounded swamp deer recovery missions. Last year I built him some 680 grain arrows 22% foc. Tags filled. All deer recovered within 100 yds. He first noticed how quiet his bow became... he then realized that when an arrow effortlessly zips through an animal... they don't run like their tail is on fire. I know this is a compound example but the arrow principles are relevant—- more so for trad being we don't have the speed. We need the mass. Front loaded mass further aids penetration. Also more mass= less energy deterioration over distance.

[Tim Finley]

We used to shoot everything with a Bear Razorhead on a wood arrow and had no problem didn't know what foc was.

[Terry Green]

I'm going to post again....

I had NO idea what FOC was till I started Tradgang. All the FOC rage came many years after.

So, I checked my arrows, with a 175 grain Z Delta 4 blade and aluminum insert and found I was at 18% FOC. Again, I had no clue, all I know is I killed a TON of critters without knowing and with a DOUBLE bevel 4 blade head.

Now people want to claim my set up is inferior.         

See my avatar? Z Delta 4 Blade pass though....

[Stringwacker]

Terry I'm with you on the past setups. I always used a 45 'grainish' aluminum insert and mounted a Black Diamond Eskimo on it....probably 170 grains at most and killed everything from elk to hogs with it. I never gave any thought that I needed more. I would flip to wood arrows and as Tim said, I just kept on killing stuff with an Eskimo.

The last few years I used a 225 grain set up (maybe 235 grains with the aluminum insert) and kept killing stuff. I used that configuration mostly because that is what tuned my arrow to the bow the best.

Bowhunting setups are so great because folks can use whatever they have confidence in. Confidence carries more weight than the broadhead:)

As far as what is extreme FOC to me?...250 grains and up but I will conceed that is VERY subjective. Like I said it can't hurt at all if a fellow wants to use it and can still get the arrow in the animal.

[Ol’ Sloughfoot]

I dont think anyone is saying anything is inferior. Your set up is money. I may even try those delta 4's. I believe what has happened in the archery world is for years since carbon arrows came out... speed was the end all- be all for the compound crowd (vast majority of bow hunters). The unfortunate truth is that the buzzards and coyotes benefited. Now compounders are realizing better results by going "back to the future" with arrow set ups we have been using. They call it extreme or whatever like they've discovered something. Again 18%... you've been high FOC the whole time lol.

[Terry Green]

I dont think anyone is saying anything is inferior. Your set up is money. I may even try those delta 4's. I believe what has happened in the archery world is for years since carbon arrows came out... speed was the end all- be all for the compound crowd (vast majority of bow hunters). The unfortunate truth is that the buzzards and coyotes benefited. Now compounders are realizing better results by going "back to the future" with arrow set ups we have been using. They call it extreme or whatever like they've discovered something. Again 18%... you've been high FOC the whole time lol.

Absolutely, if they were inferior I wouldn't have been using them since the 80s. AND they wouldn't have killed over 300 animals. 

I'm thawing out some wild pork now for the Traeger Grill.