nah, he doesn't.....and the reason is the "aesthetics".  And from a lack of full knowlege to them (due to the lack of interest - again, my aesthetic taste), pricing isn't any advantage from what I've seen in catalogs...

I don't think this can ever be answered with the absolutes we seek.

QuoteWhich brings us back to the original question.

"But, really, is there so much of a difference in performance to warrant such a ginormous difference in the price tag between one of these and a production bow?"

To which I replied...

"no"  

That's ONE opinion.

The only person one can answer this question for.......is himself. How or why another man spends his money.....is of no interest or concern to me.

Ahhh, I understand. I just gathered from your post that you were focusing on ILF's as the way to get a bow that fits.

I think if you tell the maker the correct specs and he's a bowyer worth his salt, his custom bow will fit you as well if not better than any production bow...ILF or not. At least that's the case with the custom makers I've purchased from.

Does the ginormous difference in price tag justify performance increase? Well, that depends. Most Ferrari's cost 2-3x more than even the top end Corvette...yet they only outperform the Corvette by maybe 2-3%...but it's still 2-3%. It's up to the individual to determine if it's worth it or not, but look at any of the tests by Blackie or whomever and the top dogs in performance are ALL custom manufacturers, at least from my memory. So, the performance difference is definitely there, it would just depend on how much money someone wanted to spend on that difference.

For me, it's not just about the speed, that's just a nice icing for my cake. I like custom bows for both performance and looks...mainly because when I pay for it, I get exactly what I want.

Usually my conversations with a bowyer go like this:

"I'd like to have it built out of this combination of woods, in fact, I'd like to use this here fence post from pappy's farm for most of it..."
"No problem"
"I'd like the grip to be just like this one...."
"No problem"
"I'd like the length to be 56", will that work with my 27" draw..."
"No problem"
"I'd like it to have these spangles and doo dads on it...."
"No problem"

"No problem" is worth money to some people. To others, it's not.   But the reality is, you do, almost all of the time, get what you pay for. It may only be 2-3%, or it may only be exactly how you want it to look, but you still get it.

Well said GMMAT!! Well said!!!!!

God bless,Mudd

The best way to answer your question is to put your Hoyt's, I assume a Dorado or GM up against the customs. I've shot the Hoyts, great value bows that will do the job, my customs like my Widow's and my Morrison simply perform better and look better, that is all that it is.

When I shot a Dorado, the best I could get out of it was about 165fps, My Widow PSR is smoking it at 189fps. Speed isn't everything I know, but it does help.

QuoteOriginally posted by Spectre:

It is all really reminding me of the HOG member Harley crowd, always on the quest to find the next new performance doodad on a scooter that isn't much of a race bike in the first place. Even with all the performance gizzies on the market, a Harley is still slow.

 

I've been thinking this too. I used to want a Harley. I'm afraid this trad shooting is becoming "cool". Just like Harley riders..There a some that are motorcyclists and some are the "Harleys are the only REAL motorcycle" guys. There are trad shooters that are ARCHERS and then those that truely scoff at anyone that shoots a compound as if shooting one makes you less of a person. If the bad Harley mentality invades Trad archery too much I'll be practicing more with my atlatl just not to be a part of it. My 2 cents   :p

QuoteOriginally posted by Zradix:
 

QuoteOriginally posted by Spectre:

It is all really reminding me of the HOG member Harley crowd, always on the quest to find the next new performance doodad on a scooter that isn't much of a race bike in the first place. Even with all the performance gizzies on the market, a Harley is still slow.

 

I've been thinking this too. I used to want a Harley. I'm afraid this trad shooting is becoming "cool". Just like Harley riders..There a some that are motorcyclists and some are the "Harleys are the only REAL motorcycle" guys. There are trad shooters that are ARCHERS and then those that truely scoff at anyone that shoots a compound as if shooting one makes you less of a person. If the bad Harley mentality invades Trad archery too much I'll be practicing more with my atlatl just not to be a part of it. My 2 cents    :p  [/b]

I don't know about all that, but the elitism drives me crazy.

This has turned into a pretty interesting thread.

The only way you can let that stuff bother you.....is if YOU allow it.

I hope EVERYONE thinks the bow they're shooting is the "best".

The only thing i can add to this thread is if you are going to spend a ton of money on a bow do yourself a big favor and shoot the exact same bow before you spend a bunch of money.

I took up trad last May and looked through all the magazines and the internet and i ordered a $1,200 bow without ever even shooting the bowyers bow, big mistake.

This bow is the one of the most beautiful bows i have ever seen and believe me i have looked at a ton of custom bows in the last year and i cant shoot this bow worth a flip. I dont like the limb design or the mass of the riser and its just plain slow.

Go back to the Howard Hill shoot last year here in Bama and the guys from Black Widow had a lot of there bows to shoot. I shot every bow they had at least 3 different times and found one that fit me like a glove.

I like high end bows with all the bells and whistles and really like that the bow im getting was built to fit me. I have a 30in draw and Bob Morrison built me a bow exactly like i wanted and he spent a lot of time talking to me about how i wanted this bow built. Im not saying it outshoots other bows but he built it to my specs and it really is a work of art.

I guess you can tell i really like all these great bows. Now if i could just learn how to shoot them.  

If you have to ask, I can't explain it to you!

QuoteOriginally posted by GMMAT:

That's ONE opinion.

The only person one can answer this question for.......is himself. How or why another man spends his money.....is of no interest or concern to me.

So true. But that is after all, what Spectre asked for...our opinions.

It's a "chicken or the egg" sort of an argument...
My $.02 is this: whichever bow you finally settle down to shooting enough to figure out how to shoot well will be the best bow you have. I don't consider myself or my bows particularly special but I shoot them (a longbow and recurve both made by Seigeworks) a LOT and can hit what I'm looking at give or take two inches out to 30 yards. They weren't made "to my specs" nor do they fit me like a glove BUT they are consistent.
So long as whatever bow you shoot is consistent (self, production or custom) and you shoot them CONSISTENTLY you will improve by leaps and bounds and you will have all the kinks worked out or at least you will know how to work around those kinks. If you are looking for that perfect bow that will make you that perfect archer without taking the time to perfect your form I'm afraid you are going to lose a lot of time and money and won't be much better for it.

I chose traditional archery for the very reason that the art is really about improving oneself and that can only be cheated so much. At some point you have to look in the mirror and realize that the only consistent variable in this whole game is you - particularly if you keep switching bows!!!

My point, Lenny, was it's fine to offer "opinion".  That's great.  Everyone's entitled (naturally).

When that opinion is offered as fact, though.....well....you know.

Like I said, I hope everyone feels their bow is "best".  I think that's great.

I like opinions. This stuff makes for a fine debate.

I'm actually a guy who shoots some plain jane stuff, and also has a couple shiny customs, too.

I like them both, I don't see any real performance differences----nothing alarming enough to ditch one bow or the other, thats for certain.

I really just wanted to know if there was a notable difference.

Thanks guys for the replies here. This is a good thread.

I use an old Browning Explorer when I really want to have confidence that I'll shoot my best.  It is a production bow that was slightly modified to slim down the grip and beef up the tips for FF type strings.  I don't chrono my bows but it will shoot pretty much as quick as most any I've had (and I've had some of the best including those with foam/carbon limbs).  She sure ain't pretty by many standards but to me pretty is as pretty does.  

I enjoy a beautiful custom job as much as anybody and it's real easy to get caught up with desire to have the newest, the prettiest, the fastest or the coolest bow.  But at the end of the day I'm a hunter and a bow is a tool.  Give me a grip that fits and an arrow that shoots straight off the shelf to where I'm looking.

Sometimes I have to set all the other stuff aside and remind myself that I don't truly "need" the new whiz-bang custom.  I may want it, but it is not necessary.  Still, I'm proud there are bowyers constantly improving their designs.  Gives me something to consider and occasionally a different design to try.

Hey Spectre, How goes it?

I'm just an old bowaholic that has no money for the nice ones, otherwise I'd own them.

My walls are covered with bows, all but one costing less than 200 bucks. I popped for a 57 Kodiak Special last week for the sum of 275 and feel guilty about breaking my fast.

I've owned some nice bows but have settled into thinking that my old RWH's perform as good as any of them.

If I had not squandered my fortune in my youth then I'd no doubt tinker a bit more with the high end stuff.

Great thread, I'm enjoying it.
Fred

Custom bows. What's custom?

1- woods
2- grip
3- tiller

The only problem with a production bow is most are not tillered correctly. JMHO

I have experienced a significant difference in custom bows. That's why I shoot one bow. But I am always looking to try others. One bowyer shapes his grip this way and another shapes it that way. One bowyer tapers his limbs one way. His tips are different and his string grooves are different. One radius' his shelves more or less than anothers.....on and on it goes. There are some very popular bows out there that I have owned and had to sell because for me they weren't worth owning. What fits you and how you shoot it is what is important. Then I look at the craftsmanship and how beautiful it is.  If I can get all of this in a bow I am a happy camper...very happy...but nothing wrong with looking around though!

I don't mind paying for the artisanship to build a bow - or is some cases the tech. in its construction - ie Widow.  Some folks buy cheap then end up having to buy again.  How does that save money?  H

Its a question of what you like and what you can afford. Many off the shelf bows will match strides with the finest custom bows, but don't necessarily have the same eye appeal. To some that makes a difference, but to others is extraneous and needlessly expensive fluff. What makes a bow "worth it" is simply that which a fellow likes and can shoot with confidence. Personally, I like custom bows - I consider some of them to be functional art objects. However, my wallet requires that I must give affordability the strongest consideration.