But...well....vegetables can't run away. That's not fair. I dunno, anyone suppose the turnips feel the farmer coming and are thinking hard thoughts of, "No, please, please, pick Tommy over there." Sorry, I have a weird sense of humor!

Seriously, hunting is part of what made us human in the first place, IMHO. Natural predators DO, in fact, have advantages we don't have. Anyone here can fly like a falcon, raise their hands? Anyone here have the eyesight of a hawk, raise their hands? Anyone here can smell blood in the water like a shark, raise their hands? Anyone here have claws that can rip out a deer's throat, raise their hands? Hmmmm....

I think the proper response should be,"Why don't you hunt?"
It's just as germaine as her question.

Your friend would just love me this season. I'm eating greens with my deer tags. Well,they haven't gone in the pot just yet. I have permission to hunt if its easy terrain so, it ain't over til its over and that's not until Jan 15th.
God bless,Mudd

Wolfs hunt in packs. That's 5 wolfs to 1 deer. Not fair to the deer but they do it. Croc's hide under water and wait for the prey and even spiders spin great big webs to catch their meals. What your doing is really no different than what other predators do. Cats hide in trees and wait for their prey, right? Just like you do! I am so glad I am not the type of person that goes around everyday trying to get everyone else to live like I think they should. That would wear me out man. Stay frosty man. Don't let them wear you down.  

I was genetically locked into being a hunter. Not that many generations ago we were all hunter gatherers. Some gathered, some hunted. I am glad I was not born a gatherer.

Leopards often wait on branches over trails in India,this is a fact and have seen it.
tigers,leopards, lions are born with cammoflage,the last leopard I hunted got to within 10 feet,not yards before i could get a shot,my first tiger i literally got to within 12 yards before i realised it was a tiger that i was looking at,I was hunting sambur and would not shoot a Tiger.
Leopards verry often go into peoples animal pens and kill everything in it and eat nothing without waking up any humans.
I was born a meat eater and a warrior by cast and creed,hunting was a way to teach us how to protect ourselves and out people and provide protein for us all.
I definately agree there are a lot of people who portray themselves as hunters and abuse the previlege of being hunters.I have not killed anything this year and have more than loved every moment being out in the woods this year.I do intend to take meat this year and will fill my freezer.It is up to the hunter to choose the method.
Tree stand,stalk or ambush,hunting is hunting,if you do not wish to contribute to killing,stop eating meat,wearing wool,leather shoes,milk,butter,honey,and dont even bother with organic produce as even the manure that came for the produce came from a farm.

I think you can't run 40 miles an hour or have claws and fangs so you have to use your large brain and tools to capture your pray.

I agree with robtattoo. The "I hunt because I am a predator" argument doesn't hold water.  All humans are predators so why don't they all hunt? Hunting is a personal decision and means something different to each person. I think many hunters don't take the time to figure out why they do it. It's a pretty primal urge that requires a lot of introspection and contemplation to be able to explain it to someone who doesn't feel it. I think it's why so many hunters fall back on trite explanations that leave them feeling inadequate when dealing with people who are passionate about their contrary opinions. I hunt because when I hunt I feel as though  I am a part of, rather than a spectator to nature. Although I enjoy other outdoor activities immensely, I don't have or feel the same connectedness to nature as I do when I hunt. I love the feeling of self sufficiency In providing my own food also. I get this from gardening too.

Anti and non hunters tend to pigeon hole hunters as all hunting for the same reason. Their arguments are as trite as some of our defenses. Prey cares not how they die or if they are killed fairly or respectfully. Only humans seem to care how they die or how they kill. All predators adapt physically and tactically to become more efficient. I can think of very few human hunting tactics that don't have direct parallels in the non-human predator world. Traps are spider webs. Ambush predators (cougars, raptors) may perch in a tree waiting for their unsuspecting prey to wander by. A deer drive is a pack of wolves cooperatively hunting. All these things would counter the original argument presented, but they don't answer the question "why do you hunt?"  To be honest there are some who we would all prefer didn't answer that question.

Why does someone drive a car that kills flies and mosquitoes on the windshield?  Why does someone use antibiotics to kill living creatures that infect other living creatures?  Why should we have chlorine in the water and kill thousands of helpless creatures?  Why warn people or care about a Tsunami; millions of sea creatures and micro-organisms flourish?  

The entire debate hinges on one's world view; that is the "lens" by which one understands the world and answers a handful of questions in a coherent and comprehensive manner (in other words, the total sum of the answers have to fit together and make sense, otherwise one's world view is inconsistent and irrational!)  The basic questions are:  What is the beginning foundational absolute of the cosmos- the really real?; What is the nature of external reality- the world around us?; What is a human being (origins/destiny)?;  How do we come to know anything?; What is right and wrong- ethics/morality?; What is the meaning of human history?

There are only a handful of "systems" that seek to give a framework for those answers.  The "systems" that tend to exalt animals to an extreme actually diminish the value of human beings.  Culturally it can be seen as animals are given higher value while the sanctity of human beings is decreased.  Go to India.  Children, elderly, and the sick are laying in the streets starving while animals roam freely (and sacredly) on the same streets.

America was founded on a Judeo-Christian "system" that had a proper place for creation (which meant we cared for our world with conservation and game laws); while at the same time it had a proper place for the divinity of man (which gave us freedom and human rights).  As the "system" is set aside- those proper relationships of animals and humans go with it!  

I hunt- just like I drink water, pick an apple off a tree, care for my dog, work the soil, or enjoy a good steak and baked potato.  It is all part of a created order given us for our good and welfare.  We are to care for it, use it, and enjoy it.

Never in my life will I apologize for being a bowhunter.  Humans are predators. Our genes are programed for the chase.  Many times esp. while in college I wound up dating many of these over educated enlightend souls who have turned their backs on our very nature? What are they rebelling against?
  It is easy to be a "world is harmony" liberal when your safe and well fed living in a city. Just this last week I watched mouth agape one pundit while referring to the Treadwell movie state; "hunting is just misplaced primate aggression"...  WHAT?  Yeah, this was a Berkley type erudite. Educated in books and never in fact.  

Lead by example and try to take some of these people out to experience what hunting is in the real world. Then they can create an informed opinion...

"Well I honestly couldn't think of a single thing to say to that"

Tell her your not a wolf, bear or cougar! Your a human, and you hunt like a human! Good Grief

Eric

You already hunt instinctively with a trad bow. I think it is for you to decide how far you want to take that journey toward a club and spear.

If you are on a journey, and I think hunting for some of us is one, thats all she needs to know. I wouldn't let others decide for you whether your methods are "just" or not. It puts them into a position no person can occupy.

Certainly consider her views.  I  applaud you doing that. But it is ultimately your own inner voice that will tell you how you want to hunt and when changes, if any, are required.

Joshua

I used a tree for a treestand long before I hauled a 55 gallon drum stand up a tree; there were no deer at the time...I was hopin' a fox would come huntin' the resident cottontails. Aside from that, other predators such as cougars hunt from trees...with no conscience and no excuses. Man learns from other predators, and one of the first things to take away from such lessons is that man is easy prey, him/her self.

Calling does not require anything artificial...just a bit of know-how and talent. Camouflage?...does anybody want to pretend that both predator and prey are not adequately camouflaged? Sorry, but my ancestry started shedding body hair long ago...and putting on a deer hide used to work, but it's no longer advisable. The binoculars...well, I used to do a little better with my far-sighted friend, but we've lost contact. And I've never shot anything with a pair of binoculars...but I do have 500mm lens for nature photography, when I do not wish to disturb the critters. Personally, when I'm talking trad bowhunting, it has nothing to do with optics.

I did not have any hunters in my immediate family or have any real guide at all. It took a long time to realize that I have a genetic predisposition that I cannot ignore...and I suppose I can thank those opposed to bringing it so clearly to my attention. None of us are here without benefit of those who were previously successful in such endeavors. How silly to think so little of the odds our ancestry managed to overcome...and how better to understand, than to hunt. Hunting gathering has not gone away...they've built malls for it. Rick.

They are naturally camouflaged, those who can hunt from a superior position do, they have natural weapons, we are very lacking in the senses and physically compared to our prey and use our intelligence to close the gap. No apologies here.

KSDan- In my opinion, Judeo-Christianity has little to do with man's relationship to nature. There are plenty of instances where christians do not live in harmony  with their environment or animals and there are plenty of examples of non- god based religions and faiths that did and still do respect and conserve nature. While the United States may have been founded on JC principles, there were plenty of Americans on this soil long before Columbus and those who followed arrived and decimated our natural resources. Judeo-Christians spent the previous 400 years wreaking havoc on this continent's native wildlife... The North American Conservation model is less than 100 years old and came to be only because of a few passionate, intelligent and influential people decided to do something to break the trend. I doubt they got their motivation from Sunday school. I think they did it because they loved to hunt and wanted to make sure they and their descendants would always have that opportunity.

You might ask her if she understands how many animals die getting vegetables and grains to the table, from the forests cleared for farmland, to the chemicals used to control pests, to the harvesters grinding up anything that can't get out of the way, to the trucks hitting 1000's of animals on the roads and highways bringing raw foods the processors and then processed food to the stores.  Tell her not to pass judgement on you (us) as she is every bit as responsible for animal deaths as we are.  Animals die, it's part of the system of life, whether it's people hunting them or other predators, or getting hit by cars.  You might offer to take her with you into the field sometime, after actually experiencing a hunt, she could change her tune.

We hunt for game management,population control.Our hunting license fees pay for this.If we would stop hunting the population would grow out of sight.And we would have devastion to farmers crops,animals hit by cars,disease.There is not that many natural predators left that can control population growth.I really can't see her point of view at all.

Does she eat meat or wear leather?  Does she think coyotes should be allowed to take toddlers out like they are starting to try to do in California?  Does she let mice, rats, and insects have free run of her house?  How about flies and mosquitos, does she swat them?  If she is a vegetarian the odds are many deer and rabbits are whacked to protect vegetable crops.  Point out that the way wolves, wild dogs, and lions kill much of the time involves animals being torn into pieces.  Or the prey is held by one animal while others in the pack begin to eat its organs while its still alive.  How fair or sporting does that make wolves?  There are lots of documentaries showing the true way prey animals actually die in the wild.  A shot or two to the vitals is an easy way out compared to wolves or starvation.

Antis, and the like, as well as people that are indifferent to wildlife have done more through loss of habitat from developement than I, or any wolf will ever match.

I can't hear, smell, or run as fast as a wolf, he has far more of an advantage with his natural ability than I have with any or all of the gadgets I could possibly posses, and that goes for the prey as well!

I feel the question posed is about ethics, and are we ethical to hunt and kill and animal when we can subsist these modern days without it. I say we are, if we go about it in an ethical mannor, that is using our hunting skills in lew of technology. Our conscience instead of our desires. If we follow the mandates of management. If we manage the wildlife as stewards, providing for man as well as beast IS possible, but it truly starts and ends with ethics. "Ethics; is doing the right thing when nobody is looking". She would have no parks to hike and camp in, such as Yellow Stone, if it were not for the setting aside of such territories by a hunter....Teddy Roosevelt.

I think this thread is an example of why the non-hunting public has such a poor understanding of hunting. A reasonable and straightforward question was asked, "Why do you hunt?" In two hours this group of enlightened and conscientious traditional bowhunters have responded with: "Its in my genes" "God gave man dominion over the beasts" "do you know how many animals YOU killed eating your salad" and "because we are smarter than animals". For a group of people who feel so strongly we have no need to apologize, we're getting awfully defensive. All of these arguments can be countered, even by a fellow hunter, so imagine how easy it must be for someone who fundamentally disagrees with our position to regard it as irrelevant. And so the endless cycle of tit for tat arguments continues and the original question never gets answered and the asker goes away holding even more resolutely to their original convictions. Robtatoo, however, in answering the question from the get go would have gotten a reasonable person thinking and maybe even swayed some opinions. Its the difference between defending hunting and promoting hunting and I believe that promoting hunting will change more minds than defending it.