Curveman,

Killie's right - you were right the first time with "their."  That finishing school must have worked; you just lost faith in it.  

So it's their no "they are" or they're. Let me see: "the rain in spain falls softly on the plain..." I betcha (bet ya) no one will get THAT reference!  

Flint -- My foam core Shrew (the first ever) that you shot at Kalamazoo is incredible in every way. The only things that could perhaps improve on it would be carbon backing and a Bow Bolt. It is quiet, smooth, fast and a very good shooter. When I was out hog hunting with it this fall, I started stump shooting at unknown distances on the way back to my vehicle after the morning hunt and while I was waiting for my hunting buddy. I was hitting very close to or right on almost all the natural targets I was shooting at. At one point I was a fairly long way from a little broken off stalk of bush that was 6" high and 1/2" in diameter. I thought to myself, "it would take someone like Byron Ferguson or Ron LaClair to be able to hit that stickup at this distance. Then I drew back, steadied, and released. The arrow flew straight at my target and hit it solidly in the center, both vertically and horizontally. It all felt so natural that I wasn't even too surprised. I stepped off the distance at 40 yards, which made me feel even better about the shot. It takes a good bow to be so light (about a pound) and yet be so accurate that I could make a shot like that. If I do my part, that little 56" foam core Classic Hunter will do what I ask of it.

The carbon fiber will be nice, but the Bow Bolt will be even nicer in my next Shrew. I do have several Shrews with the Bow Bolt and will not order another without the takedown feature. My Super Shrew cape buffalo bow has a Bow Bolt or I would be taking something else to Africa in two weeks. The "something else" would have been a Morrison or a Brackenbury 3 piece. Before I got the Shrew buffalo bow, I thought about buying a heavier set of Dakota foam/carbon limbs for my Morrison ILF to use on the buffalo, but the Shrew is much lighter and easier to take along while I am hauling my wife's rifles and other gear.

Ron -- that bow in your pictures is getting me excited for the one like it (other than woods) I have on order. I am tempted to change my choices based on the beauty of that one!    :eek:  

Allan

QuoteOriginally posted by Curveman:
I mean, the difference may be promotional hype or may be genuine. I wasn't just joking when I said that someone can let me try the new "hyperflex core piezo action skiis" and I'm likely to go "wow!" then ski the same time in the race course! LOL! That is not saying that foam core bows are not fast and smooth but the reasons for the performance gains might just be in a new design. Where's Consumer Reports when you need them to test all this out OBJECTIVELY?      

It ain't hype brother. When I got my carbon/foam Dakota limbs it literally changed the bow. While I didn't do any quantitative analysis, the "wow" feeling is still as strong as the day I shot them. Without looking at the core, I can immediately tell you if a Shawnee/Dakota is foam or boo just by drawing it. There IS a difference even in just the "feel".

As far as performance, I did run 2 strings of 10 out of each limb set (same riser) and there was at least a 4fps difference on all shots (some were 5-6 but I gave it 1-2fps for my release errors). These were adjusted to fps/gr because arrow weight and #'s were slightly different.

By the way, these limbs were the same design, only materials were different.

I'm well aware of "new bow syndrome". But after a year and a half with them, I've sold all my other 5 bows (top of the lines each one) and am down to two...both carbon/foam dakota. So in that year and a half, I've shot quite a few other bows and not once did I say to myself "I want to buy this one!".

Disbelief does not make it untrue.     Just my humble opinion, your mileage may vary, no purchase necessary, deposit refunded upon return...etc. etc.

And from my memberin, it's "the rain in spain falls mainly on the plain" Audrey Hepburn in My Fair Lady.

JC -- Hey brother, you almost got it right. Actually it is "The rain in Spain stays mainly in the plain." You were right as to the movie and actress, although the song is a duet with Henry Higgins (Rex Harrison) who uses the same words. It is part of him teaching her to speak like a lady, and this song is where it finally clicks with her. Hope all is well with you and the family. Give all of them my best.

JC's statements on the foam carbon limbs are spot on, although I do agree with many here that design is more important than materials. The Morrisons and Shrews with foam cores and carbon backing are fantastic. But I also have been testing a new Brackenbury static tip recurve called the Peerless that is the nicest shooting recurve hunting bow I have ever shot. It is phenomenally quiet and dead in the hand. It also is very smooth and fast. The "rest of the story" is that the Peerless has boo core limbs with exotic wood veneers and clear fiberglass -- no foam or carbon. As a result of shooting the bow I have changed my order (an order placed a year ago with a deposit of 50%) from a Non-Typical to a Peerless. I would not even mention the bow publicly at this time, except that Bill Howland has posted a reference to the Peerless on his website as being on order by one of his customers. My point is that design is still the most important factor, but sometimes the design lends itself to improvement with certain materials, just as JC and others have stated.

Allan

Someone said carbon isn't a good core material.The triple carbon bow I have has bamboo and carbon core w/ carbon back and belly and w/ wood veneers back and front.Very fast bow and handles very heavy arros exceptionally well.I'm very pleased w/ my carbon core bow.I asked the bowyer about foam and he said that bamboo is a lighter material than foam w/ his limb design,so he saw no benefit w/ foam.

amara911

Just for grins,
What's the specs on your buffalo shrew?

Jason

Foam is lighter than Bamboo of any kind, No matter what your design is............

Jason,

The buffalo Shrew is not as high in poundage as you might imagine. Fortunately, I have a 29 1/2" draw, so the arrow has more string time, and therefore more energy than the same poundage at a standard 28" draw. At 29 1/2" the Shrew is 68 pounds. It throws the 900+ grain arrows out there pretty fast. When my wife sits on the patio when I shoot, she always comments on how much more powerful the arrows sound zooming past her than the lighter arrows from my lower poundage bows. My neighbors from down the street comment on the smack the arrows make when they hit my target. The bow is quiet but those heavy arrows are not.

I love my foam core Morrison limbs -- all of them -- and I have a bunch. Bob's bows are as good as anyone's. I am a huge fan of my Shrews, Brackenburys and Blacktails, each of which I like for specific characteristics, but I wouldn't want to be without my various Morrisons, especially those with foam core limbs and carbon backing. I don't think it takes those materials to build some of the best bows out there, but longbow limbs in particular seem to benefit substantially from the advanced composite materials. Bob has been a forerunner in this area and his bows show the rewards of experience in the hands of a great craftsman.

Allan

Bob,
Is foam lighter than carbon and dose foam have the same functioning qualities as carbon as a core?Can you grind foam to desire thickness and taper?
amar911,
Not to discredit Bob Morrison but they have been using foam in bow limbs long before any of the bowyers today.

Foam is lighter than carbon. Foam has a lot of air in it(Glass air bubbles). Foam cores have been around for over 30 yrs. and has been used in recurves for that long. According to David Sosa(Das bows)We were one of the 1st to use it in a longbow. We have our own formula in the foam. Carbon is the same our own formula on the direction of the fibers, # of layers ,weaves and uni.and a few other things with the carbon. We have spent a lot of money getting the foam and carbon where we want it to be. And I'm sure there will still be changes as we go. Anyone can get our foam from Old Master Crafters. Our carbon to a few select bowyers that are in business.

QuoteOriginally posted by Bob Morrison:
Foam is lighter than carbon.Moisture, weather are not effected the way Bamboo or nay wood. It is sanded the same way wood cores are(very messy) is Foam has a lot of air in it(Glass air bubbles). Foam cores have been around for over 30 yrs. and has been used in recurves for that long. According to David Sosa(Das bows)We were one of the 1st to use it in a longbow. We have our own formula in the foam. Carbon is the same our own formula on the direction of the fibers, # of layers ,weaves and uni.and a few other things with the carbon. We have spent a lot of money getting the foam and carbon where we want it to be. And I'm sure there will still be changes as we go. Anyone can get our foam from Old Master Crafters. Our carbon to a few select bowyers that are in business.

QuoteOriginally posted by Bob Morrison:
Foam is lighter than carbon.Moisture, weather are not effected the way Bamboo or any wood. It is sanded the same way wood cores are(very messy) is Foam has a lot of air in it(Glass air bubbles). Foam cores have been around for over 30 yrs. and has been used in recurves for that long. According to David Sosa(Das bows)We were one of the 1st to use it in a longbow. We have our own formula in the foam. Carbon is the same our own formula on the direction of the fibers, # of layers ,weaves and uni.and a few other things with the carbon. We have spent a lot of money getting the foam and carbon where we want it to be. And I'm sure there will still be changes as we go. Anyone can get our foam from Old Master Crafters. Our carbon to a few select bowyers that are in business.

Sorry, its early.I hopem this is not how the whole week will go.

I was not a believer in the carbon and foam till I shot it. It is all I will by from now on. Bob M. has been a fore runner in the latest and greatest for a long time now. Maybe I should listen up more often. He is right on with the foam/carbon in a longbow.

I recieved my recurve foam/carbon limbs from Bob Morrison last week.   Replaced a set of bamboo limbs of the same weight and lenght.  Bamboo good, foam/carbon better.

I've been shooting a number of fine bows and my 2 morrisons with foam and carbon are dead in the hand, FAST and SILENT. AWESOME BOWS!!! Bob's great to deal with also

So Ron are you putting anything over the wood veneers that is covering the carbon? I would think that they would not hold up over time on top of the carbon unless maybe they are thin enough to be totally saturated with glue.

TTT

lol,   bob you kill me!!!!