Do these boards have the right grain?

For what? Lams, board bows, something else? Are they oak? What size?

Grain is very straight and the ring orientation isn't too bad. With the rings going through at an angle you may get a bit of limb twist through the draw but that isn't the end of the world overall. Unless you're trying for a world beating flight bow I expect those boards will make decent middle of the road bows. I'd certainly be happy to use them.


Mark

Quote from: mmattockx on June 15, 2025, 09:54:47 AMFor what? Lams, board bows, something else? Are they oak? What size?

Grain is very straight and the ring orientation isn't too bad. With the rings going through at an angle you may get a bit of limb twist through the draw but that isn't the end of the world overall. Unless you're trying for a world beating flight bow I expect those boards will make decent middle of the road bows. I'd certainly be happy to use them.


Mark

Sorry. I am trying to make a bow to hunt with. Board bow. I have some bamboo I was going to back with on one of them. They are red oak.

They would make a board bow but I doubt they will hold up to a boo backing. Hickory, elm or maple backing would work ok with it.

Quote from: Pat B on June 15, 2025, 01:53:01 PMThey would make a board bow but I doubt they will hold up to a boo backing. Hickory, elm or maple backing would work ok with it.

I agree with Pat. Red Oak is compression weak to start with; putting a strong, stiff backing on like bamboo will just make that problem even worse. Instead, I would be trapping the back to help balance it with the weaker belly.


Mark

Quote from: mmattockx on June 15, 2025, 05:30:20 PM

Quote from: Pat B on June 15, 2025, 01:53:01 PMThey would make a board bow but I doubt they will hold up to a boo backing. Hickory, elm or maple backing would work ok with it.

I agree with Pat. Red Oak is compression weak to start with; putting a strong, stiff backing on like bamboo will just make that problem even worse. Instead, I would be trapping the back to help balance it with the weaker belly.


Mark

Ok. Im glad I asked. So I need to use a different backing or nothing at all with oak and use the bamboo with something else?

Quote from: yote20 on June 15, 2025, 06:14:44 PMOk. Im glad I asked. So I need to use a different backing or nothing at all with oak and use the bamboo with something else?

Yes, correct. Red oak is fine on its own without a backing if the grain is clear and straight.


Mark

You can back it with rawhide or even brown grocery bag paper to help prevent splinters from lifting. Use TiteBond wood glue for these backings or the other wood backings.

I know you self bowyers will build bows out of most anything, but why encourage the use of red oak? The stuff splinters easily and is terrible in compression. 

I think  you'd be much better off using Ipe, Osage or even rock hard maple with a bamboo backing...... I think you will be disappointed in using this material.

I don't mess with board bows or self bows much myself. Too much effort for poor longevity and constantly dealing with MC levels effecting the finished product. I prefer a glass backed bow system myself.

Just thought I'd throw in my .02 cents worth here....   Kirk

Kirk you came into this a pro carpenter, oak board bow is a phenomenal entryway into the craft.  You can find out for under 50 bucks in tools and material on most occasion if you even have the patience for tillering or even the focus needed.

First bow i ever shot was a deer rawhide backed red oak board bow and after it took some set and i was onto other things now i use it to shoot 3 inch foam tips at my friends on the proper occasion.

It's true that I had a lot of woodworking experience before ever getting into building bows. Not just basic carpentry either. There was a period of time in the 90's that a lot of architects were bringing arched openings, spiral stair cases and radius cabinets back into their designs that required a more advanced skill set for finish carpentry. I did a lot of that in the 90's.  I handled a ton of red oak and mahogany in those days and learned how far you could push it in radius bending.

But most of my experience with oak was with building furniture, and I must say that it is very receptive to steam bending. I think the low compression properties probably helped in that application. But man that stuff splinters just looking at it.

Have any of you board bow builders dealt with Honduras mahogany? It was a widely used wood in boat building, and I built a bunch of radius top doors and frames using it. The spring back was noticeably different than Teak and other hardwoods we used, making me think that with the higher compression strength, it may be a good choice for the belly side of a board bow, and not hard to find..... or at least it used to be common.

Kirk

Quote from: Kirkll on June 16, 2025, 12:35:43 AMI know you self bowyers will build bows out of most anything, but why encourage the use of red oak? The stuff splinters easily and is terrible in compression. 

I think  you'd be much better off using Ipe, Osage or even rock hard maple with a bamboo backing...... I think you will be disappointed in using this material.

I don't think anyone is encouraging the use of red oak, OP already had the boards when he asked the question. Red oak boards are a cheap, easy way to try making a board bow for a new bowyer. The other thing is you can get red oak everywhere whereas most of the better bow woods are not nearly as widely available. I do agree that hard maple boards are better if OP has access to them and they aren't crazy expensive, either.


Mark

Quote from: mmattockx on June 16, 2025, 10:03:43 AM

Quote from: Kirkll on June 16, 2025, 12:35:43 AMI know you self bowyers will build bows out of most anything, but why encourage the use of red oak? The stuff splinters easily and is terrible in compression. 

I think  you'd be much better off using Ipe, Osage or even rock hard maple with a bamboo backing...... I think you will be disappointed in using this material.

I don't think anyone is encouraging the use of red oak, OP already had the boards when he asked the question. Red oak boards are a cheap, easy way to try making a board bow for a new bowyer. The other thing is you can get red oak everywhere whereas most of the better bow woods are not nearly as widely available. I do agree that hard maple boards are better if OP has access to them and they aren't crazy expensive, either.


Mark

I have access to maple, alder, hickory, mahogany. None of those had straight enough grain in my opinion. I have the bamboo so now I'm wondering how picky I need to be if I have that to use as a backing.

Quote from: yote20 on June 16, 2025, 10:36:38 AMI have access to maple, alder, hickory, mahogany. None of those had straight enough grain in my opinion. I have the bamboo so now I'm wondering how picky I need to be if I have that to use as a backing.

I would say both maple and hickory would be a better choice. Hickory is pretty tolerant of grain runoff and heat treats well if you wanted to try that. If you use a backing the belly side is much less critical in terms of grain.


Mark

The potential to take set with red-oak and a wood/boo backing of any kind is pretty high.  If you want to avoid that as much as possible, I would use a trapezoidal cross-section with a narrower back and a wider belly.  I definitely would use something with more give.  Bamboo is going to be too much for red oak.  Hickory would be ok, but hide or linen probably best.  I'd definitely go at least 1-5/8" in width if not a full 1-3/4" if using a pyramid design.  I wouldn't do too much in the way of backset.  It will only exacerbate the tension-compression imbalance if you use boo or hickory.  You wont see the as much string follow with backset, but you probably will see chrysals, especially if you don't tiller perfectly. If  you have a choice in white-woods from box stores, I'd take hickory, then white oak before I'd mess with red oak.  Hickory does extremely well with a heat treatment.  Heat treated hickory with a boo backing is a recipe quick shooter!

Quote from: Brian from GA on June 17, 2025, 08:19:06 AMThe potential to take set with red-oak and a wood/boo backing of any kind is pretty high.  If you want to avoid that as much as possible, I would use a trapezoidal cross-section with a narrower back and a wider belly.  I definitely would use something with more give.  Bamboo is going to be too much for red oak.  Hickory would be ok, but hide or linen probably best.  I'd definitely go at least 1-5/8" in width if not a full 1-3/4" if using a pyramid design.  I wouldn't do too much in the way of backset.  It will only exacerbate the tension-compression imbalance if you use boo or hickory.  You wont see the as much string follow with backset, but you probably will see chrysals, especially if you don't tiller perfectly. If  you have a choice in white-woods from box stores, I'd take hickory, then white oak before I'd mess with red oak.  Hickory does extremely well with a heat treatment.  Heat treated hickory with a boo backing is a recipe quick shooter!

Im not a fan of the looks of a pyramid bow. Am I able to get away with a narrower bow with red oak? I am planning to pick up some hickory or maple if I can find it. But until then I want to keep working on something. Do you have an example of trapped back? I tried searching but couldn't find any good examples.

Quote from: Brian from GA on June 17, 2025, 08:19:06 AMI'd definitely go at least 1-5/8" in width if not a full 1-3/4" if using a pyramid design. 

I'd go 2-2.25" or more in width if OP wants a hunting weight bow from red oak. With a pyramid design the extra width doesn't hurt performance and gives OP the best chance of getting a functioning bow out of it.

Quote from: yote20 on June 17, 2025, 10:32:57 AMIm not a fan of the looks of a pyramid bow.

That's unfortunate, as it is by far the easiest profile to tiller and get a decent bow from. It's also the lowest stress design, which is a very good idea for red oak.

Quote from: yote20 on June 17, 2025, 10:32:57 AMAm I able to get away with a narrower bow with red oak?

Red oak is pretty much the worst wood that will make a bow, so trying for narrower with it is a bad idea.

Speaking of tillering, how many bows have you made? Experience counts for a lot here if you are trying to make a bow with a lesser wood like red oak.

Quote from: yote20 on June 17, 2025, 10:32:57 AMI am planning to pick up some hickory or maple if I can find it. But until then I want to keep working on something.

It may take you several tries to get a bow out of this, start now with your red oak boards and at least get some practice with them while you sort out a better wood option.

Quote from: yote20 on June 17, 2025, 10:32:57 AMDo you have an example of trapped back? I tried searching but couldn't find any good examples.

Attached is a sketch showing the limb cross section of two ways to trap a limb. The back of the bow is towards the top in the sketch. The one on the right is generally better as the blunt sides are less susceptible to damage than the sharp corner on the belly of the one on the left.




Mark

Board looks like it'll work just fine for a bow. Shape it out like Mark said with a narrow back to shift strain away from the belly some. I would also give a solid heat treat and after tillering but before full shoot in, would back it with paper drywall tape. That stuff is pretty strong and already a good width to work with.

If you want a narrower profile I would go for a bendy handle at about 1.25" wide from mid limb too midlimb then taper to 3/8" nocks. Make it about 6" longer than twice your draw length, so 60" nock to nock for a 27" draw. I bet you could get up to 50# with that layout, the heat treat, trapping and paper backing.

Kyle

Quote from: mmattockx on June 17, 2025, 10:52:00 AM

Quote from: Brian from GA on June 17, 2025, 08:19:06 AMI'd definitely go at least 1-5/8" in width if not a full 1-3/4" if using a pyramid design. 

I'd go 2-2.25" or more in width if OP wants a hunting weight bow from red oak. With a pyramid design the extra width doesn't hurt performance and gives OP the best chance of getting a functioning bow out of it.

I understand. Maybe I should do that just to get something accomplished.

Quote from: yote20 on June 17, 2025, 10:32:57 AMIm not a fan of the looks of a pyramid bow.

That's unfortunate, as it is by far the easiest profile to tiller and get a decent bow from. It's also the lowest stress design, which is a very good idea for red oak.

Quote from: yote20 on June 17, 2025, 10:32:57 AMAm I able to get away with a narrower bow with red oak?

Red oak is pretty much the worst wood that will make a bow, so trying for narrower with it is a bad idea.

Speaking of tillering, how many bows have you made? Experience counts for a lot here if you are trying to make a bow with a lesser wood like red oak.

I have tried to make several and they all busted mid limb except for one and it came out really low draw weight.

Quote from: yote20 on June 17, 2025, 10:32:57 AMI am planning to pick up some hickory or maple if I can find it. But until then I want to keep working on something.

It may take you several tries to get a bow out of this, start now with your red oak boards and at least get some practice with them while you sort out a better wood option.

Quote from: yote20 on June 17, 2025, 10:32:57 AMDo you have an example of trapped back? I tried searching but couldn't find any good examples.

Attached is a sketch showing the limb cross section of two ways to trap a limb. The back of the bow is towards the top in the sketch. The one on the right is generally better as the blunt sides are less susceptible to damage than the sharp corner on the belly of the one on the left.




Mark

I appreciate the diagram. Helps a lot! Would I then sand down these edges?

Quote from: yote20 on June 17, 2025, 01:36:21 PMI appreciate the diagram. Helps a lot! Would I then sand down these edges?

I would round over all the edges a bit before tillering to prevent any splinters lifting.


Mark