Longstick great looking arrows and bow, who made your bow? Ron.

Ron the bow is a Shultz American Longbow, Old Favorite, no glass, just bamboo backed Yew, Classic elegance.

Nate the arrows fly superbly well from this bow. I picked this bow a couple of weeks ago and she seemed to match up real well with these arrow/broadhead combination. I had heard that Ribteks fly well and they were not kidding.

With this form I notice that Howard did not "kiss the back of the bow," as on would do when one is over bowed and they drive there head forward in effort to shorten the draw length/weight. He also did not "short draw" with his draw hand, he brought that thumb knuckle behind his jaw bone, with his elbow brought back not out to the side. The only thing left to "shorten" is the bow arm, a good bend in it.  
   That is what I'm trying to understand, did he push the bow hand toward the target? Kind of tough to do when you are letting it bend.
Looks like he just pretends he is "picking up a hare by the ears," or "passing a gallon of milk" to somebody. Of course what I mean by that is the natural bent arm position one adopts when the lift an object out to ones side.
Awesome bow Ron, how does that yew compare to the boo??

When you look at photos of Hill bow string is touching his eyebrow.  He is drawing the bow "back", with elbow inline with the arrow.  This is one thingh that has helped me.  Still not there, but drawing with the draw elbow back and the bow arm well bent.

Why don't we put together a list of things that we see from Howard's pictures and from his movie shorts that might give us an insight to his shooting? I'm sure it would help me and possibly others. Each of us will see things differently that Howard did while shooting. Hopefully this will give us some things to practice on.


Bill

Even tougher is that a full draw pic shows different form then his shooting form.
I would say he was more of a "freestyler" get it back, get it on target, let it rip.
 Honed by repetition, refined from full speed execution.

Longstick I thoyght that was a Schulz favorite either that or another Miller, my bow is a carbon copy exactly like John taught David Miller. Swampthing I would say a little bit smoother on the draw than the splitbamboo but not much different otherwise, both have a mild thump in the bowhand.

Swampthing... one needs to consider that the bent bow arm is not a static element of the shot. It is a spring cocked and ready.

Whereas a fully extended (locked) bow arm is already at the limit of it's extension, the energy of the release can only move it left or right.

The bent arm used in shooting the longbow naturally wants to move straight forward toward the target because that is where you are naturally pushing.

I might add that if one's concentration is focused  enough, slight errors in arrow alignment will be automatically (instinctively if you will) be corrected before the arrow clears the bow.

Swamp...I have told this analogy to others in trying to learn the feel of the bow arm and deltoid muscle working during the shot......

Pick up a cordless drill that fairly heavy...hold it out to the side of your body and pretend it is your bow handle and hold form like you are shooting.....you will notice your hand is in the perfect heel down position, your elbow is bent and pointed down at about 7:30 or 8:00 , and you feel the weight in your deltoid.  Beautiful way to feel how the longbow should feel  during the draw.

QuoteOriginally posted by sunset hill:
Swamp...I have told this analogy to others in trying to learn the feel of the bow arm and deltoid muscle working during the shot......

Pick up a cordless drill that fairly heavy...hold it out to the side of your body and pretend it is your bow handle and hold form like you are shooting.....you will notice your hand is in the perfect heel down position, your elbow is bent and pointed down at about 7:30 or 8:00 , and you feel the weight in your deltoid.  Beautiful way to feel how the longbow should feel  during the draw.

This exercise helped me greatly to "feel" the heel down and bow arm position.  The "door frame exercise" also gets that location of the heel down right.  I am much closer now with my bow arm.  Thanks again Nate for all of your insights into the style.

The most important thing about shooting a Hill bow well is finding something to shoot at. Been trying to do just that for several weeks now.

As you may recall, when last we spoke I had spent a three-day weekend with my wife trying to get the bulls to bugle on the opening weekend of Idaho's elk season. Plenty of fresh elk sign around, but the weather was a bit hot and we heard no bugling. . . yet.

So, the following weekend we packed in food for several weeks and began the hunt.



The next morning, we were thick into the middle of bugling bulls, and MAN was it fun. Just like the old days before the wolves arrived.

That night, we did not get one second of sleep, because there were bulls bugling everywhere, and I do mean everywhere. At one point we even had a bull screaming between the tent and our llamas, and the llamas were only 25 yards from the tent. Talk about an exciting night. Again, it was just like the old days.

When dawn finally broke, we were 200 yards below the tent, and I was standing on a bugle rock (I have a feeling a few of you have seen one or two) and the first bugle got three bulls to answer. I spent around 20 minutes trying to figure out which bull was the hottest so we could go after him, and then. . . they arrived.

Wolves began howling between us and the bulls. They had heard the bulls bugling their heads off all night and the pack moved in. I could have bitten a tree in half! Rage and anger filled my blood.

And so, to make a long story short, that was the end of the good old days. Right then and there. The wolves moved in, accompanied on that very same morning with thick choking smoke, and from then until the end of the season, I only heard three bulls bugle, and saw one elk.

I hunted 23 days in total on five different mountains, but could not find where the elk moved to. In the last three weeks, I saw one elk.

The smoke for most of the last three weeks was bad, down to 200 yards visibility many days. I am now hearing that since the archery season is closed and the cold weather has moved in, that the rifle boys are stacking them up like cord wood. Elk everywhere, bulls bugling, and no smoke, just crystal clear mountain air.

Ah, but don't feel sorry for me, not even a bit, as I did get to hike day after day through some great country. When the smoke finally cleared, the scenery was spectacular.

There were big rubs all over from before the wolves arrived.



And the grouse? There were more grouse than any year I can remember. I found out that if you eat two grouse for dinner on one night, the next night there is only room for one. So I passed up many grouse, shooting two one day, one the next, two the next, one the next, and so on. It was fantastic. I did not starve.





I had grouse with red wine sauce, I have grouse with rice, I had grouse with teriyaki sauce, I had grouse with mashed potatoes, I had grouse sauteed in olive oil, I had grouse!



And then, on 50-degree hillside about three hours from the nearest trail, in a place ONLY AN ELK HUNTER would ever visit, I looked down while trying to keep my footing in the crumbling granite sand, and there it lay. An old old knife from long ago. It wasn't laying in a saddle where a person would stop to take a break and eat an apple or a piece of jerky. It wasn't laying where a person might stop and sit for a moment to rest weary legs. No, it was on an overly steep slope where a person might drop an elk with an old lever-action iron sighted rifle and have no choice but to skin and quarter it right there.

The knife had been through more winters than I have, as you can see from the rust, and many fires, but that didn't matter to me, as I was grinning from ear to ear as I picked it up and felt history coursing through my veins. If you look real close a the handle, you just might see a date from a bygone era. Seems elk hunters had wanderlust back then too.



Ah, but back to elk. This was it for me. The final straw. Three years fighting the wolves for elk and coming up empty is three years too many. From where the sun now stands, I will hunt elk in wolf country no more forever.

Many years ago, we used to be able to move to any area of the state we wanted to if we needed to to kill an elk. Now we have to choose one elk zone and one zone only and we can't move to another zone, so if the wolves move the elk out, that's it, you are stuck.

I know what it's like to hunt elk in game-rich country and that's where I am going. Idaho still has a few pockets where there are no wolves, but they are in areas where there are roads, and where the trails are open to ATVs and motorcycles, which isn't to my liking. I will check them out closely, but odds are I will start hunting another state. That will leave a large lump in my throat, as I dearly love Idaho's once-great elk hunting country, but there is a shiny side to this coin--------I get to learn and enjoy some all new elk country in other states. That is something I will greatly enjoy.

And so boys and girls, that's the end of this elk story. I hope you enjoyed the photos of a Hill bow in it's native country and the others as well. The sun sets on another elk season, and the planning for the next elk season begins anew. . .

I wait for Riks yearly elk threads like a a starving man waits for donuts!

I am sorry to hear of the lack of elk , wolves etc , for Idaho has invaded my dreams since I was young ... but if anyone can find elk adventure in another state it'll be Rik methinks

giddyup !

Incredible... nice pictures and story.

Rik, I feel your pain, although I only went 15 days without seeing an elk. At least you got into some grouse, which I failed to do. They are some good eating, and easier to pack than elk.

Rik,
Your posts are my favorite. I have waited for 3 weeks to hear how your hunt went. It's a shame the wolves messed you up - but you are blessed to have been in such beautiful country. The knife find was really cool...Hopefully you will 'clean it up' and dress your next elk/deer with it....Thanks for sharing your hunt with us....

Thank you for sharing Rik!!

I truly enjoyed all of it.

God bless,Mudd

Well Folks, I've read most of this thread (took a while)   :rolleyes:    :rolleyes:    and haven't seen alot about all wood hill style bows.
I'd love to pick up one of the Hills I see in classifieds, but truth be known, I dont have the coin to spare on these things.
I have been known to build the odd BBO or BBI from time to time, and I thought I'd try a hand at making an all wood hill style.
Hopefully incorporating some of the hill feeling and characteristics if possible.

There must be ways of using tapers and multiple lams to approximate the performance of these things???

Can any of the bowyers here give a poorboy some tips to create an all wood version of a Hill bow?
Thanks

Thanks for the essay, Rik..

Sounds like it's time to hunt wolves..
No tags ??

Idaho has a 5 wolf limit per hunter in some areas, 2-3 wolf limit in others...until they reach the kill quota....I have my tag!

Rik is in a hard place,  I sympathize with him... :(   He is used to hunting unpressured elk in backcountry settings, that bugle their heads off and can be called in...that's the not so long ago days and us westerners all miss those days.  Frankly I don't know of any good elk state that doesn't have wolves now...that's the bummer.

I have changed my elk tactics to hunt what I call "whitetail elk"...these elk are sneakier than in the old days,  they call less, they herd up in smaller bunches, they squirt around you and stay in the same cover,  and above all, they are staying in close proximity to human activity.  Every backcountry guide and hunter I have talked to say the same story as Rik....the farther you are from human activity, the more wolves and fewer elk.  It's a fact.  Elk move where there are no wolves and that is out the back door.  Now I have to hunt where there are more roads, more human activity, etc...but once again I am experiencing bugling elk, and lots of them.  So I learned to look the other direction from the roads and people.  I have learned to hunt elk in a smaller, more personal way....like a suburban whitetail.  Not what I would prefer, but better than not hunting them at all.  

My elk season was great,  not many days in the field, but days filled with bugling elk, rutting like crazy.  And the grouse...oh the grouse!